INSIGHTFUL QUESTION

LRJets wrote:

   I guess Patriot fans will ALWAYS have a different interpretation of realism regarding Spygate.  

Realism?  Actually, the reverse of the above is true.  Different interpretation than WHO?  Uninformed haters?  Pats fans - at least this one -- cares little what they think. 

There is "realism" regarding spygate, as you say.  And then there is the haters' interpretation consisting of exaggerated, inaccurate, and erroneous characterization of what spygate actually entailed, typically going far beyond "realism" and blowing it up to much, much more than it actually was. 

I guess the haters will ALWAYS do that though.

guppy wrote:

George1963 wrote:

By the way, if you're keeping track last weeks AFCCG puts the Pats at 2-6 since 2007 in playoff games against teams they'd already played that season.
They were 7-2* in such games from 2001-06.


Um, you ever think that different talent level on the roster might have something to do with that?  The Pats defense barely forced Denver to punt.  I'm pretty sure the defenses from 2001-06 with McGuinist, Vrabel, Bruschi, et al, might have been able to mange that.

First, they are 3-6 since 07. Not 2-6. My mistake.
Different talent level is an interesting theory, given that their overall talent level has been better since 07, but they've been beating these teams in the regular season.
From 01-06 they were 4-5* in the regular season (plus an exhibition against the Eagles in 04) against the teams they were 7-2 against in the playoffs.
From 07 on they were 7-3* regular season against teams they were 3-6 against in the playoffs.
They used to do better against teams they'd already faced. Now they do worse.
Circumstantial, I know, but it's a decent size sample and it's something to think about.

Enough about that. Are you looking forward to watching Brady in the Pro Bowl tomorrow?
Oh Sorry. I forgot. He's too big for that.  

* The numbers don't add up because of the Jets.

George1963 wrote:

guppy wrote:

George1963 wrote:

By the way, if you're keeping track last weeks AFCCG puts the Pats at 2-6 since 2007 in playoff games against teams they'd already played that season.
They were 7-2* in such games from 2001-06.


Um, you ever think that different talent level on the roster might have something to do with that?  The Pats defense barely forced Denver to punt.  I'm pretty sure the defenses from 2001-06 with McGuinist, Vrabel, Bruschi, et al, might have been able to mange that.

First, they are 3-6 since 07. Not 2-6. My mistake.
Different talent level is an interesting theory, given that their overall talent level has been better since 07, but they've been beating these teams in the regular season.



Denver punted only once in the game - on their first possession in the first quarter.  Every other possession, they put up either 7 or 3.   

So much for the Pats D. 

Lets see.  This time NE had Alfonso Dennard who simply could not cover Demaryius Thomas once Talib went out four plays into the second quarter.  Simply couldn't cover him.  No way.  Manning took advantage of no Talib, and he and Thomas ate Dennard alive.  So credit to them for taking advantage.  Now who did we have at that spot back in the day?  Oh, I remember now, it was Ty Law.  He owns the record for the most career interceptions by any single player against Peyton Manning.  He's personally picked off Peyton 9 times, including 3 in the '03 AFCCG.  Ya, I'd say there  is a difference in talent level.  

Once Talib went out, the writing was on the wall.  Second year in a row that's happened.  The AFCCG last year against Baltimore completely turned in the Ravens favor once Talib went out with an injury.  Now the guy is a free agent.  Lets see what they do.  I think they'll put the franchise tag on him. 

LRJets wrote:You guys can debate, argue, agree, disagree, about what happened since the last winning SB for the Patriots, and why no repeat?


Deep study, meditation, advanced logic, philosophy has all gone into this quandry.


The puzzle has been solved, an answer emerged!!!



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LOL.  I think you might be on to something there.    

George1963 wrote:
The curse of the Mangini.

You should copyright that and get working on book - before someone else does.  You just know something like that will sell. 

But one piece of advice, try not to use the word "karma" more than 500 times.  It gets old after awhile.  
 

guppy wrote:

George1963 wrote:
The curse of the Mangini.

You should copyright that and get working on book - before someone else does.  You just know something like that will sell. 

But one piece of advice, try not to use the word "karma" more than 500 times.  It gets old after awhile.  
 

George1963 wrote:

 

How many times can I use "schadenfreude"?


Ah, finding pleasure from the misfortunes of others. 

That's something to cheer for, I guess.

I myself am not above experiencing schadenfreude on occasion.

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LRJets wrote:The standardbearer portrait of schadenfruede


I see.  By taking your highest joy from celebrating the misfortune of Mr. Brady suffered recently at the hands of the Manning brothers, you are clearly claiming the title of standardbearer of schadenfruede for yourself. 

I get it though.  Its kind of a New York-style mentality.




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guppy wrote:

LRJets wrote:The standardbearer portrait of schadenfruede


I get it though.  Its kind of a New York-style mentality.

New York-style mentality also existed on 9/11.  Ask those whose lives  were saved by it!

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George1963 wrote:I did read Ron Borges' column.  You know he's been a Belichick critic since the first day Belichick got here, right?  Drew Bledsoe was his binky and source of information for most of his columns.  When Belichick chose Brady over Bledsoe, it infuriated Borges, who since that time has never missed an opportunity to slam the coach.  Its known thing around here. 



I don't know. I think he's pretty good. I know he's a great boxing writer.
Anyway, he doesn't always bash BB. He wrote this before the Denver game;



Bill Belichick, Pats winners in end

DENVER — As much as all of New England wants to see the Patriots win the AFC Championship today for the sixth time in 13 years and return to the Super Bowl, it really doesn’t matter what happens at Sports Authority Field at Mile High this afternoon. They’ve already won.
If ever a team is playing with house money it’s these Patriots, a group that lost the third-most games in the league by starters to injury this season and the second most if you include the incarceration of Aaron Hernandez on murder charges. Only the New York Giants (91) and Indianapolis Colts (83) lost more games by starters to injury than the Patriots (74). Add 16 more for Hernandez and that number jumps to 90 and drives home the point: This is one of the most resilient football teams ever built.


No doubting how much the Colts lost to injuries, so they proved pretty damn resilient themselves.

Before the season the Pats offense was built around a two headed monster of two tight ends.  When they lost the murderer that is what really fouled things up for pretty much the whole season.  I think you have to count his games just like the injuries, and not put him in a separate category.  A loss of a starter is a loss of a starter, period.  That makes 90 games by starters lost, second only by one game to the Giants 91.  The entire offensive approach had to be re-worked.  After the Hernandez thing went down Belichick had no great plan other than, "Julian Edelman will carry us until Gronk gets back, and we'll be OK in the second half of the season."  What kind of plan is that?  It sucked.  As fan am I supposed to feel good that they got as far as they did, and that in all reality, beating Denver at Denver was a long shot at best?  I don't.  They teased me by building up my expectations over the course of the season.  Once my expectations got built up, the disappointment, inevitable as it may have been, stings even more.

Now, I understand its a business, but if they make an offer to Free Agent Edelman that is insulting, after the season he just gave them, I will be so pissed off I will smash my Patriots coffee mug with the the three Lombardis on it into a thousand pieces.

LRJets wrote:
Now, I understand its a business, but if they make an offer to Free Agent Edelman that is insulting, after the season he just gave them, I will be so pissed off I will smash my Patriots coffee mug with the the three Lombardis on it into a thousand pieces. 

But in an "UnGuppy-like" manner you skipped over my comment regarding my definition of "NY mentality", as opposed to yours.
Gotcha!


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There is no "Gotcha".  The only reason I skipped over your 911 reference was because my comment about "NY mentality", which was only in response to your negative Brady post, was that I was keeping things in the world of sports, ie our entertainment.  Whereas, you then chose to venture out of the world of sports and into the most serious part of the real world one can imagine -- 911. 

You completely changed the playing field.  You mixed two different worlds, the serious one of life and death, with the one that is trivial in comparison and that only involves our entertainment.  I did not see mixing the two worlds as appropriate. 

I will trash talk back and forth with New Yorkers any day, and have been doing so with my NY friends for the last 40 years.  But if you trash talked to me about a Boston team or player, it would never enter my mind to come back at you with something having to do with the Boston Marathon bombing.

When we talk sports, its supposed to be all fun and games - our fantasy world.  But when we talk 911 or marathon bombing, its another type of discussion entirely.  I referenced "NY mentality" only as far as its sports fans are concerned.   And you think a good come back is to bring in the NYFD and NYPD?    

Is Seahawks coach Pete Carroll a 9/11 truther? That all depends: Does badgering a former four-star general about whether 9/11 was real make one a truther?
Here’s what happened, according to a couple sources: Late last spring, retired general Peter Chiarelli, who had just finished his term as the Army’s vice chief of staff, visited Carroll at the Seattle Seahawks headquarters. Chiarelli was expecting a pleasant meeting. After all, the pair had what important businesspeople tend to call synergies: Chiarelli—who grew up in Seattle—is a big Seahawks fan. His post-military work concerns traumatic brain injury research, a cause of some significance to the NFL. And both have plenty of experience leading groups of men on grand American stages.
The sit-down between Chiarelli and Carroll started off normally enough. They talked about the team, and then about head trauma. Chiarelli, who commanded the American forces in Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom II, talked about the brain injuries he had seen there. But Chiarelli’s mention of Iraq sent Carroll in another direction: He wanted to know if the September 11 attacks had been planned or faked by the United States government.
In particular, Carroll wanted to know whether the attack on the Pentagon had really happened. Chiarelli—who was the top-ranking Army official inside the Pentagon when American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into its western side—explained that it had. He said he had lost many colleagues. But Carroll didn’t stop there. He ran through the whole 9/11 truther litany.
“Every 9/11 conspiracy theory you can think of, Pete asked about,” said Riki Ellison, the former NFL linebacker who now runs the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance and introduced Carroll to Chiarelli. Ellison, along with Seahawks offensive line coach Pat Ruel, was at the meeting as well. “And he didn’t stop at 9/11—he had lots of questions about the role of the military today.” (Carroll does seem to have some fondness for the military. He lectured at a military-sponsored “[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]” in 2009, and last year Ellison connected him with Army soldiers at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].)
Carroll isn’t crazy, Ellison said. He’s just skeptical. “Pete grew up in California during Vietnam, and during Watergate. That’s just the perspective he brings to the table.”
So did the discussion last year turn hostile? A source close to Chiarelli, one who wasn’t present when he spoke to Carroll, told us that it did. He said the general had to leave the room because Carroll had rankled him so thoroughly. Ellison told us that that wasn’t true, that the discussion had remained friendly and “fun” throughout. A spokesman for Chiarelli at his foundation, One Mind for Research, did not respond to repeated phone and email requests.

guppy wrote:

LRJets wrote:
Now, I understand its a business, but if they make an offer to Free Agent Edelman that is insulting, after the season he just gave them, I will be so pissed off I will smash my Patriots coffee mug with the the three Lombardis on it into a thousand pieces. 

But in an "UnGuppy-like" manner you skipped over my comment regarding my definition of "NY mentality", as opposed to yours.
Gotcha!


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There is no "Gotcha".  The only reason I skipped over your 911 reference was because my comment about "NY mentality", which was only in response to your negative Brady post, was that I was keeping things in the world of sports, ie our entertainment.  Whereas, you then chose to venture out of the world of sports and into the most serious part of the real world one can imagine -- 911. 

You completely changed the playing field.  You mixed two different worlds, the serious one of life and death, with the one that is trivial in comparison and that only involves our entertainment.  I did not see mixing the two worlds as appropriate. 

I will trash talk back and forth with New Yorkers any day, and have been doing so with my NY friends for the last 40 years.  But if you trash talked to me about a Boston team or player, it would never enter my mind to come back at you with something having to do with the Boston Marathon bombing.

When we talk sports, its supposed to be all fun and games - our fantasy world.  But when we talk 911 or marathon bombing, its another type of discussion entirely.  I referenced "NY mentality" only as far as its sports fans are concerned.   And you think a good come back is to bring in the NYFD and NYPD?    
Sorry Gup, I couldn't help but mean it to be generic rather than specific.  Both NY and NE areas have their schmucks.  No majority in that category.
Now...............
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LRJets wrote:

Sorry Gup, I couldn't help but mean it to be generic rather than specific.  Both NY and NE areas have their schmucks.  No majority in that category.
Now...............
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Jolly good show old man.    

LRJets wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


When you consider that some old man coming off a bunch of neck surgeries, who can't move very well, and who regularly throws wounded ducks up for grabs, and yet he manages to put up great numbers with this awesome arsenal of weaponry, can you just imagine what kind of eye popping numbers Tom Brady or Geno Smith would put up?  We're talking video games here.