Saturday: growing rift between Rodgers and McCarthy

duck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JnC4GB wrote:I agree with all of this, but don't see a happy ending coming --not from this guy or his albino boss.
Too fucking stubborn and prideful.

Case in point: Brandon Jackson's lengthy tenure.


Meanwhile in Denver...  

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's inevitable given the nature/intelligence of Rodgers and McCarthy within the dynamics of their roles.  When the Protege of superior intelligence to the Master gains the knowledgebase and confidence that comes with experience--his ego will demand better than what lies within the relatively limited confines of the Master's margin of operation.  Add to that the limitless unchecked adulation that comes with being the QB of the Green Bay Packers with all the success he's had--and the ego can start a scorched earth campaign to wipe out anything that stands in the way of maintaining the basis for that continued adulation.  It's a subtle process...and can be very insidious to those, particularly younger, who don't constantly check themselves...
 
McCarthy is in a tough spot.  From a command hierarchy standpoint he is superior to the subordinate QB...and must maintain that credibility of superiority or he loses the whole locker room.  However, as they say, it's a poor coach who treats all his players alike.  I don't care if you're on a corporate sales floor or in a locker room--you've got to find a way to make sure your rainmakers can continue growing, continue excelling and continue operating with the flair that a superstar requires...and that is often a complicated puzzle that requires of one the ability to look into the third level.  McCarthy ain't got that.  Not by a wide margin.  Could be stormy seas ahead--and this could be some advance foreshadowing to the astute eye of what ultimately ends McCarthy's days in Green Bay.  For if it were to ultimately come down to a stand off between McCarthy and Rodgers--Rodgers would be the man left standing...  Fatty could easily lose that locker room in abruptly changing his tune after figuring that out too late...  So, in another words-- McFatty needs to address this NOW--appropriately/astutely while it is still a small lesion--or this thing could get out of hand and bite his ass no matter what he does...
 
The time has come to hand the keys to Rodgers and get the fuck out of his way.  He's ready.  McCarthy must do it voluntarily.  It's vital.  That way he maintains control--for what you freely offer, you can freely withdraw.  If McFatty waits until it becomes clear to those in that locker room that he feels pressured into it--he's dead in the water...  Get Pastor Jeremiah Duck in to administer last rights... 

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It's inevitable given the nature/intelligence of Rodgers and McCarthy within the dynamics of their roles.  When the Protege of superior intelligence to the Master gains the knowledgebase and confidence that comes with experience--his ego will demand better than what lies within the relatively limited confines of the Master's margin of operation.  Add to that the limitless unchecked adulation that comes with being the QB of the Green Bay Packers with all the success he's had--and the ego can start a scorched earth campaign to wipe out anything that stands in the way of maintaining the basis for that continued adulation.  It's a subtle process...and can be very insidious to those, particularly younger, who don't constantly check themselves...
 
McCarthy is in a tough spot.  From a command hierarchy standpoint he is superior to the subordinate QB...and must maintain that credibility of superiority or he loses the whole locker room.  However, as they say, it's a poor coach who treats all his players alike.  I don't care if you're on a corporate sales floor or in a locker room--you've got to find a way to make sure your rainmakers can continue growing, continue excelling and continue operating with the flair that a superstar requires...and that is often a complicated puzzle that requires of one the ability to look into the third level.  McCarthy ain't got that.  Not by a wide margin.  Could be stormy seas ahead--and this could be some advance foreshadowing to the astute eye of what ultimately ends McCarthy's days in Green Bay.  For if it were to ultimately come down to a stand off between McCarthy and Rodgers--Rodgers would be the man left standing...  Fatty could easily lose that locker room in abruptly changing his tune after figuring that out too late...  So, in another words-- McFatty needs to address this NOW--appropriately/astutely while it is still a small lesion--or this thing could get out of hand and bite his ass no matter what he does...
 
The time has come to hand the keys to Rodgers and get the fuck out of his way.  He's ready.  McCarthy must do it voluntarily.  It's vital.  That way he maintains control--for what you freely offer, you can freely withdraw.  If McFatty waits until it becomes clear to those in that locker room that he feels pressured into it--he's dead in the water...  Get Pastor Jeremiah Duck in to administer last rights... 

For the most part I agree with your analysis, HD.  Plus, you're right that it's essentially a "small lesion" now (I really like that phrase) and that MM needs to act soon.

However, I disagree with your (and JnC's) conclusion that McCarthy won't adapt to Rodgers' desire to have a greater role in play calling.  The reason is simple.  It's in his self interest to do so!  I understand that MM prides himself as a play caller but the reality is that he won't have to completely give up that role.  He would still be the one setting the parameters within which Rodgers could work.  Take a look at the Super Bowl.  On many occasions Rodgers audibled out of running plays because he saw defensive formations he felt he could exploit.  And MM was just fine with that.  All in all, over the years, I think these two have established a positive chemistry and, despite the evidence of Rodgers' new growing pains, I think they can hash things out.  Both of them certainly express such sentiments in all their press conferences.

I see this entire process as a potential huge positive.  Despite all our grousing, the Packer offense under MM and Rodgers has been one of the very best in the league and with a little tweaking and shifting of more responsibility to Rodgers it will only get better.

You could be right, Duck.  It all depends on the ratio of wins to losses from this point forward.  If McFatty retains control at this point over play-calling (as he will) and the team continues losing--then handing the keys over to Rodgers at that point constitutes an admission of failure.  I don't see someone with McFatty's makeup doing that.  If the team on balance wins...then McFatty has no incentive or justification in his mind to make any changes.  Like they say in the 'burgh...why fix what ain't broke?   

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

RingoCStarrQB wrote:let the QB win the game or lose the game.   

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

It was such a cold day...even for #4 to be on target. What we needed on a day like that was Sherman. Run the football...Pound Pound Pound!

duck wrote:

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

It was such a cold day...even for #4 to be on target. What we needed on a day like that was Sherman. Run the football...Pound Pound Pound!

Until you completely wear down a defense and then punt on 4th-and-1 when a first down would have sealed the game.

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

duck wrote:

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

It was such a cold day...even for #4 to be on target. What we needed on a day like that was Sherman. Run the football...Pound Pound Pound!

Until you completely wear down a defense and then punt on 4th-and-1 when a first down would have sealed the game.

Is that what happened Duck?  I was there but was so cold I can't remember much other than the 90 yarder to Driver, Favre's INT, and watching the ball go through the uprights in OT.  What yardline were the Packers on when the 4th and 1 opportunity arose?   And when............first half...........early second half..........late second half...........OT ??

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

duck wrote:

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

It was such a cold day...even for #4 to be on target. What we needed on a day like that was Sherman. Run the football...Pound Pound Pound!

Until you completely wear down a defense and then punt on 4th-and-1 when a first down would have sealed the game.

Is that what happened Duck?  I was there but was so cold I can't remember much other than the 90 yarder to Driver, Favre's INT, and watching the ball go through the uprights in OT.  What yardline were the Packers on when the 4th and 1 opportunity arose?   And when............first half...........early second half..........late second half...........OT ??

I was referring to the 2003 Philly game, Ringo.  Milani was Shermanizing and I just pointed out that we had a tired and beaten Philly defense just where we wanted them.  A first down could have closed out the game.  But, as we all remember, Shermie punted and that led to the sequence of events that included the 4th-and-26 disaster and the OT loss.

Pound, pound, pound, indeed.

milani wrote:

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

duck wrote:

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:In the 2007 NFC Championship Game at Lambeau vs the Giants.........McFattyMcShittyMcSloppy kept the leash real real tight on Favre which resulted in much too close of a game........essentially holding one arm behind Favre's back keeping Favre from slinging it on the big stage.  What happens........the wound up tight ballthrower characteristically exploded with that shit INT.    Point being........let the QB play the game.........let the QB win the game or lose the game.   Same goes for running backs.  Give the backs the ball to see what they and the offensive line can do.

Sorry Ringo...given the leash to sling the ball on the big stage is exactly what you DIDN'T want to do in the last few seasons of Favre's career...

Hey....go look at the game stats.   Subtract the 90 yard TD pass to Driver and you'll see clearly (now :>)) that Eli and Tommy C. outpassed McM and Brett by a significant margin.    Then look at the rushing yardage.........Packers limped along the entire frigid evening while the Giants went past the century mark.   Thus......LOGICAL thinking says McM should have taken the reigns off of Brett and just let him sling it all night long.   GO PACK GO !!

It was such a cold day...even for #4 to be on target. What we needed on a day like that was Sherman. Run the football...Pound Pound Pound!

Until you completely wear down a defense and then punt on 4th-and-1 when a first down would have sealed the game.

Is that what happened Duck?  I was there but was so cold I can't remember much other than the 90 yarder to Driver, Favre's INT, and watching the ball go through the uprights in OT.  What yardline were the Packers on when the 4th and 1 opportunity arose?   And when............first half...........early second half..........late second half...........OT ??

I was referring to the 2003 Philly game, Ringo.  Milani was Shermanizing and I just pointed out that we had a tired and beaten Philly defense just where we wanted them.  A first down could have closed out the game.  But, as we all remember, Shermie punted and that led to the sequence of events that included the 4th-and-26 disaster and the OT loss.

Pound, pound, pound, indeed.

Actually the yard line was close to where we were last Sunday in Cincinnati when Franklin hit a brick wall and disaster struck. We were 4th and 1 around the Philly 39. Too long for Longwell and we had just moved the ball downfield all on the ground. A great offensive line and tight end plowing for a couple of strong RBs. Philly was out of timeouts. One first down and we could just about run out the clock. Since we failed to get it in on 4th and 1 in the 2nd quarter the Tinhorn figured the defense would get it done. Then Puntwell kicks it in the end zone and the rest is history. The Eagles did not have the defensive line that Cincy has and they were gassed.

Yet Bart Starr can plunge it through doomsday on a field of ice. Seems like these crunch time plays only worked for Lombardi.

RingoCStarrQB wrote:Shermanizing Definition:  The act of pearing your ass and stopping your brain from functioning at the same time.

OK......let's open this one up to all the cynics, brainiacs, beauties, and duffasses (not to mention those others):

To HD Shermanizing means (not to be confused with Simonizing/Waxing you pervert LOL)

To Duck Shermanizing means

To Milani Shermanizing means running the football each and everyday and sticking to the routine of what got you there.

To Catsy, Sheila, JnC, Throttle, PKFKNIFFFFFA, KBen, FF, MB.....and the rest of yuse alls........Shermanizing means:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:Shermanizing Definition:  The act of pearing your ass and stopping your brain from functioning at the same time.

OK......let's open this one up to all the cynics, brainiacs, beauties, and duffasses (not to mention those others):

To HD Shermanizing means (not to be confused with Simonizing/Waxing you pervert LOL)

To Duck Shermanizing means

To Milani Shermanizing means

To Catsy, Sheila, JnC, Throttle, PKFKNIFFFFFA, KBen, FF, MB.....and the rest of yuse alls........Shermanizing means:

milani wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:Shermanizing Definition:  The act of pearing your ass and stopping your brain from functioning at the same time.

OK......let's open this one up to all the cynics, brainiacs, beauties, and duffasses (not to mention those others):

To HD Shermanizing means (not to be confused with Simonizing/Waxing you pervert LOL)

To Duck Shermanizing means

To Milani Shermanizing means running the football each and everyday and sticking to the routine of what got you there.

To Catsy, Sheila, JnC, Throttle, PKFKNIFFFFFA, KBen, FF, MB.....and the rest of yuse alls........Shermanizing means: