Is that a *good* stink?

by Guest Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:03 pm

I've been eagerly anticipating the Football Outsiders statistical analysis and breakdown of the final regular season tallies to see exactly to what degree Duck has his head implanted within his ass. This is vital info in determining what capacity pump pressure we, his friends, might require to successfully complete extraction...

As we all know--the Quacker clucked his tufted ass off all season long about how the O-line was not inadequate at all--regularly characterizing the line as *good* and that the D was the only reason for the underperformance of the team this season. Within the last couple of weeks, Duck has tried to wuss the use of the word *average* into the mix--retrospectively claiming that *average to good* was his consistent position all along. Of course, we all know that's the type of matter a bull likes to expel from his BUNG HOLE after a fine meal of fucking PRAIRIE GRASS--but I digress. Here, my friends, are the numbers for you to consider yourselves. As you can see, The arrival of a legit back in Eddie Lacy elevated the O-line to a 6th place ranking league-wide in run blocking with, not surprisingly strong performance from the interior of the line. Moving outside to the tackles, also not surprisingly--a significant dropoff exists with Bak pulling a 16 ranking in run blocking and Barclay down all the way to 22...

How about pass protection? Get ready to hold your noses... Not bottom 5 in the league--no...but yes, BOTTOM 7. Only SIX other teams in the league ranked worse in keeping their QB on his pegs...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's a subjective assessment that just came out from the Quack's favorite, Cheesehead TV... An A, two B's a C, a D and an F. Good? Even the weaseled *Average to good*? Not in my world.

Offensive Line
David Bakhtiarai (C+): Compared to other rookies, Bakhtiari deserves an ‘A,’ but compared to tackles league-wide Bakhtiari was merely average. He allowed eight sacks and 27 quarterback hurries, according to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Although his pass blocking was better than his run blocking, there’s plenty to be enthused about. Bakhtiari shows very good feet and was consistently able to position himself in front of defenders, while also displaying the competitive spirit to finish. Now he just has to get strong enough to anchor and get push in the run game.
Josh Sitton (A): After a season-opening performance in which Sitton was penalized three times, things only got better for the Packers veteran guard. Sitton went on to have a Pro Bowl-caliber season, even if he wasn’t voted as such, which was all the more impressive considering he switched from right to left guard in the offseason. He was equally effective in both the pass and the run game and was undoubtedly the team’s best offensive lineman. Allowed one sack and seven quarterback hurries, per ProFootballFocus.com.
Evan Dietrich-Smith (B): While he maybe wasn’t as good as Scott Wells in his prime, Dietrich-Smith was an obvious upgrade over the Jeff Saturday experiment of 2012. He was above-average in nearly every facet of the game, and above all, the Packers offense operated without a hitch with Dietrich-Smith manning the pivot position. Among the more impressive developments was how effective he was pulling after barely doing so the first few seasons of his career. Allowed five sacks and eight quarterback hurries, according to ProFootballFocus.com.
T.J. Lang (B): Like Sitton, Lang made an impressive transition to a new position, switching from the left to the right side. He’s not quite in the same category as Sitton, but he’s not far behind. Early in his career, the Packers experimented with Lang at tackle but he appears to hit his stride inside. With a little more consistency, he could be among the top guards in the NFL. Allowed three sacks and 16 quarterback hurries, per ProFootballFocus.com.
Don Barclay (D): Barclay gets by because he’s a battler, but depending on him as a game-in, game-out starter is a risky proposition. He struggles with speed rushers and defenders that have multiple pass-rush moves. He allowed eight sacks and 22 quarterback hurries, according to ProFootballFocus.com, regularly keeping Rodgers and Flynn under fire. His run blocking was one more reason Lacy was able to have such a successful season, however. He might be a better guard than tackle.
Marshall Newhouse (F): In just over 200 snaps, Newhouse allowed two sacks, 12 hurries and was penalized two times, per ProFootballFocus.com. He wasn’t a great run blocker by any means, but he did surprisingly well in that aspect of the game, considering he was never a good run blocker on the left side the previous two seasons. That was just about his lone saving grace, because Newhouse was beyond lost in pass protection.

by duck Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:59 pm

Jesus, HD. Didn't you read any of my analysis of your previous posting of the official NFL stats for Offensive Lines? (That link posted below.) Remember, I used your own source to destroy you last time? It's initially ranked in order of sacks given up and yes, sacks are important... but they are only one aspect of line play. If you like on any of the other 9 or 10 measurements in the official NFL stats, Green Bay's offensive line comes in the top half, often top five. Then of course, you have the overall production of the offense, of which line play is invisible but essential, and Green Bay comes out #3 overall for the season. With all the injuries, etc. that "dogshit offensive line and that fat fuck shitty play caller, had the third fucking most productive offense in the league.

The same thing is true for your Football Outsiders stats. Green Bay finished low in sacks but high in everything else.

Of course I saw the Cheesehead TV rating too... but once again your interpretation is flawed. You do understand that these grades are strict and a C grade would equal "average", don't you?? They only gave out three A's (Lacy, Nelson and Sitton) and Rodgers got a B+. Since when does an A, two Bs, a C+ and a D for the starting line equal dogshit?? I suppose Rodgers is just slightly above dogshit in your book.

I thought your effort to weasel Marshall Newhouse into the equation was clever but he was not a starter and only performed in slightly over 200 snaps.

Nice try, HD, but once again... FAIL.

I do give you credit for finally attempting to back up your emotional barstool comments with some statistical evidence, however, even if once again, that effort blows up in your face. cheers

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:10 am

duck wrote:Jesus, HD. Didn't you read any of my analysis of your previous posting of the official NFL stats for Offensive Lines? (That link posted below.) Remember, I used your own source to destroy you last time?   LOL! The sure sign of a beaten man--delusional self-aggrandizement. I enjoy you, duck...      It's initially ranked in order of sacks given up and yes, sacks are important... but they are only one aspect of line play. If you like on any of the other 9 or 10 measurements in the official NFL stats, Green Bay's offensive line comes in the top half, often top five. Then of course, you have the overall production of the offense, of which line play is invisible but essential, and Green Bay comes out #3 overall for the season. With all the injuries, etc. that "dogshit offensive line and that fat fuck shitty play caller, had the third fucking most productive offense in the league.

The same thing is true for your Football Outsiders stats. Green Bay finished low in sacks but high in everything else.

Really? You show, once again, your superficial understanding of the game, Duck... No concept...no sense of measure. You honestly don't know whether 27 and 22 hurries respectively from the two tackles is good or bad unless someone at your game-day bar or some prong on Cheesehead TV characterizes it for you, do you?

Of course I saw the Cheesehead TV rating too... but once again your interpretation is flawed. You do understand that these grades are strict and a C grade would equal "average", don't you?? They only gave out three A's (Lacy, Nelson and Sitton) and Rodgers got a B+. Since when does an A, two Bs, a C+ and a D for the starting line equal dogshit??

That's a subjective assessment that equates to a 2.6 GPA, Duckly. maybe that's *good* in your book, but hardly mine...just as 26th in the league in pass protection can never be an accolade of what constitutes a *good* O-line in my world--an O-line that committed the cardinal sin of allowing their QB to suffer a serious injury on a whiffed block that essentially shelved him for the season

I suppose Rodgers is just slightly above dogshit in your book.

Another reflection of a beaten man--r e a c h i n g into the absurd to attempt to mischaracterize his opponents position.

I thought your effort to weasel Marshall Newhouse into the equation was clever but he was not a starter and only performed in slightly over 200 snaps.

Once again--you seem to have no idea that 200 snaps is a significant number that makes Newhouse a significant contributer to the overall lackluster play of the line...and that has been your claim--the line is good and was never a liability. How weak of you to try to dismiss the contribution of those who don't nicely fit into your delusional reality, Quacker...

What's become clear to me through this extended debate, Duck--is that you just don't really understand your content. You don't have anything more than a very remedial understanding of what actually constitutes a *good* line--so you're really not defending anything more than your own empty words.

Nice try, HD, but once again... FAIL.

I do give you credit for finally attempting to back up your emotional barstool comments with some statistical evidence, however, even if once again, that effort blows up in your face.

LOL! The third occasion in a single post. Good God, Duck... When is that beach vaca coming again? Hopefully for you--sooner rather than later, eh? You make this easier and easier for me...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:46 am

OK, HD, I'm not going to belabor things. Too much time to waste here. Instead I'm going to just quickly undercut one of your central points.

You erroneously equate the Cheesehead TV ratings to academic grades. You seem to feel that a "C" rating is a condemnation and a "B" rating more like average.

Read the scale at the top of the link. It makes very clear my point:

The grading scale is as follows: A=Pro Bowl/All-Pro caliber, B=Solid NFL starter, C=Average NFL player, D=Below-average NFL player, F=Fringe NFL player.

Even the way you slice it, at an aggregate rating for our line of 2.6, this makes it PRECISELY what I've said all along: average-to-good.

Keep in mind Rodgers was rated a B+ on this very same scale. Only THREE A's were given to our team. This is a very strict scale and I would expect that even a line that we think is kick ass (such as the Niners' defensive line), would get an overall rating of perhaps 3.5 at best.

You really need to have a full and accurate understanding of the scale used before you attempt to use it in an argument.

HD: once again: FAIL.

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:00 am

Oh, and before I forget, I've very generously given you the luxury of arguing against my point instead of defending your point.

If we pursue the latter, your entire position dissolves like tissue paper. There is NO FUCKING WAY an offensive line that invisibly contributes to the #3 offense in the league (with a "shitty" play caller, back up QBs for half the season, and a plethora of injuries elsewhere), has an All-Pro member, likely an All-Rookie as well, has what's been called the best tandem of guards in the NFL, scores highly on almost every single measure of offensive line efficiency, and is lauded by a variety of blogs and statistical sites is: dogshit.

Maybe your good buddy Milani can take time out from his promotional efforts for Mike Sherman to help you, but I have yet to hear even a peep, a fucking iota of support for your stupid claim that our offensive line is dogshit.

The ball's in your court, buddy.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:10 am

duck wrote:OK, HD, I'm not going to belabor things. Too much time to waste here. Instead I'm going to just quickly undercut one of your central points.

You erroneously equate the Cheesehead TV ratings to academic grades. You seem to feel that a "C" rating is a condemnation and a "B" rating more like average.

Read the scale at the top of the link. It makes very clear my point:

The grading scale is as follows: A=Pro Bowl/All-Pro caliber, B=Solid NFL starter, C=Average NFL player, D=Below-average NFL player, F=Fringe NFL player.

Even the way you slice it, at an aggregate rating for our line of 2.6, this makes it PRECISELY what I've said all along: average-to-good.

Keep in mind Rodgers was rated a B+ on this very same scale. Only THREE A's were given to our team. This is a very strict scale and I would expect that even a line that we think is kick ass (such as the Niners' defensive line), would get an overall rating of perhaps 3.5 at best.

You really need to have a full and accurate understanding of the scale used before you attempt to use it in an argument.

HD: once again: FAIL.

That's fine, Duck... Just fine... The fact that you've found it necessary to weasel a strong and consistant claim of *good* all season into an insistance that it's been a claim of *average to good* all along--is a good enough reflection for me. Yes- the 7th worst O-line statistically in pass protection in the entire NFL over an entire season is good and just fine when you wear feathers, have a curly fry for a penis and a brain the size of a pecan. I should give you more credit for doing as well as you do... Laughing

On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England? Cool

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:45 am

On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers. Cool

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:48 am

duck wrote:Oh, and before I forget, I've very generously given you the luxury of arguing against my point instead of defending your point.

If we pursue the latter, your entire position dissolves like tissue paper. There is NO FUCKING WAY an offensive line that invisibly contributes to the #3 offense in the league (with a "shitty" play caller, back up QBs for half the season, and a plethora of injuries elsewhere), has an All-Pro member, likely an All-Rookie as well, has what's been called the best tandem of guards in the NFL, scores highly on almost every single measure of offensive line efficiency, and is lauded by a variety of blogs and statistical sites is: dogshit.

Maybe your good buddy Milani can take time out from his promotional efforts for Mike Sherman to help you, but I have yet to hear even a peep, a fucking iota of support for your stupid claim that our offensive line is dogshit.

The ball's in your court, buddy.

What!? No response to this?? HD? Milani? Surely it would be child's play to prove that our stinking line is dogshit.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:13 am

duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:24 am

_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:26 am

duck wrote:
duck wrote:Oh, and before I forget, I've very generously given you the luxury of arguing against my point instead of defending your point.

If we pursue the latter, your entire position dissolves like tissue paper. There is NO FUCKING WAY an offensive line that invisibly contributes to the #3 offense in the league (with a "shitty" play caller, back up QBs for half the season, and a plethora of injuries elsewhere), has an All-Pro member, likely an All-Rookie as well, has what's been called the best tandem of guards in the NFL, scores highly on almost every single measure of offensive line efficiency, and is lauded by a variety of blogs and statistical sites is: dogshit.

Maybe your good buddy Milani can take time out from his promotional efforts for Mike Sherman to help you, but I have yet to hear even a peep, a fucking iota of support for your stupid claim that our offensive line is dogshit.

The ball's in your court, buddy.

What!? No response to this?? HD? Milani? Surely it would be child's play to prove that our stinking line is dogshit.

Give it up, Duck. You've already demonstrated enough how one man can continue to fist his own ass while suffering no pain... Laughing

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:36 am

duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

Once again, Duck...you reflect your lack of understanding. I'm not talking about *like* I'm talking about compositions. I'm talking about depth. I'm talking about interlaced expression 100 miles deep that simply just works on every level...

Emotion is an intangible, Duck. You can't reach for it. You can't grab it. It must be elicited. You don't govern emotion. Emotion governs you--if you want to be a real person that is... You don't tell emotion what's good. Emotion tells you... Perhaps Israel Kamikazehole does have a sweet voice. Great. Not what I'm talking about at all, Obtusio... Laughing

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:43 am

_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

Once again, Duck...you reflect your lack of understanding. I'm not talking about *like* I'm talking about compositions. I'm talking about depth. I'm talking about interlaced expression 100 miles deep that simply just works on every level...

Emotion is an intangible, Duck. You can't reach for it. You can't grab it. It must be elicited. You don't govern emotion. Emotion governs you--if you want to be a real person that is... You don't tell emotion what's good. Emotion tells you... Perhaps Israel Kamikazehole does have a sweet voice. Great. Not what I'm talking about at all, Obtusio...

Jesus, HD. That Jimmy Page composition is nice and I do indeed like it... but you make it sound like it's something sublime or extraordinary. All this stuff about emotion and "interlaced expression"... Sleep

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:54 am

duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

Once again, Duck...you reflect your lack of understanding. I'm not talking about *like* I'm talking about compositions. I'm talking about depth. I'm talking about interlaced expression 100 miles deep that simply just works on every level...

Emotion is an intangible, Duck. You can't reach for it. You can't grab it. It must be elicited. You don't govern emotion. Emotion governs you--if you want to be a real person that is... You don't tell emotion what's good. Emotion tells you... Perhaps Israel Kamikazehole does have a sweet voice. Great. Not what I'm talking about at all, Obtusio...

Jesus, HD. That Jimmy Page composition is nice and I do indeed like it... but you make it sound like it's something sublime or extraordinary. All this stuff about emotion and "interlaced expression"...

Yes, Duck--that's exactly what I'm trying to say. You just don't get it...

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:06 pm

_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

Once again, Duck...you reflect your lack of understanding. I'm not talking about *like* I'm talking about compositions. I'm talking about depth. I'm talking about interlaced expression 100 miles deep that simply just works on every level...

Emotion is an intangible, Duck. You can't reach for it. You can't grab it. It must be elicited. You don't govern emotion. Emotion governs you--if you want to be a real person that is... You don't tell emotion what's good. Emotion tells you... Perhaps Israel Kamikazehole does have a sweet voice. Great. Not what I'm talking about at all, Obtusio...

Jesus, HD. That Jimmy Page composition is nice and I do indeed like it... but you make it sound like it's something sublime or extraordinary. All this stuff about emotion and "interlaced expression"...

Yes, Duck--that's exactly what I'm trying to say. You just don't get it...

Evidently not.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:27 pm

duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:On to the next topic. Wanna talk again about how Randy Moss was *over* before he went to New England?   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Fine. We'll pencil that in after we discuss how Daunte Culpepper was a better QC than Brett Favre and the ten most significant musical achievements in the last century have all been by twenty-year-old British and American rockers.

    Yes, Duck--that season he did put in a better year at QB than did Favre. The guy was almost lethal there for awhile--both with his arm and his feet before he blew that knee out. Once again, your biases, intellectual laziness and mischaracterizations trip you up...

Finally, my friend...if you lack the capacity to appreciate the inherent genius demonstrated by Jimmy Page in sitting down in his basement one evening and solitarily penning this absolute modern-day masterpiece of a composition, on oh--so many levels--I can't help you with art any more than my efforts to teach you football have been rewarded with your understanding... Then you add in the timeless lyrics and vocal delivery from Plant that absolutely brings to life the vivid, raw emotion, who he himself admitted, was what he considers his finest hour in his entire catalog. Those who this song can't reach simply have no soul. Maybe someday some slapdick on Cheesehead TV will blog about it and you'll become a believer...

   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Damn HD, I happen to like Jimmy Page and that cut in particular. Good stuff. But I don't like him any more than I like Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, for example, who has perhaps the purest sweetest voice I've ever heard. You dismissed him promptly as dogshit, or something to that effect.

We could go on and on about this -- and have already -- but my point, once again, is that there's much much more to music than just rock and roll.

Once again, Duck...you reflect your lack of understanding. I'm not talking about *like* I'm talking about compositions. I'm talking about depth. I'm talking about interlaced expression 100 miles deep that simply just works on every level...

Emotion is an intangible, Duck. You can't reach for it. You can't grab it. It must be elicited. You don't govern emotion. Emotion governs you--if you want to be a real person that is... You don't tell emotion what's good. Emotion tells you... Perhaps Israel Kamikazehole does have a sweet voice. Great. Not what I'm talking about at all, Obtusio...

Jesus, HD. That Jimmy Page composition is nice and I do indeed like it... but you make it sound like it's something sublime or extraordinary. All this stuff about emotion and "interlaced expression"...

Yes, Duck--that's exactly what I'm trying to say. You just don't get it...

Evidently not.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Is that you, Duck? You do look young for your age but you should really dump the butts... Laughing

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:03 pm

Is that you, Duck? You do look young for your age but you should really dump the butts... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

They help me on my long bike rides. Very Happy

by JnC4GB Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:36 pm

Kind of amusing how you guys are arguing over artistic "depth" when your two examples are most well-known for doing cover versions of somebody else's ORIGINAL work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...and Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf and Robert Johnson and, well, the list goes just on and on as to who Page ripped off, errrr, "covered."

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:41 pm

JnC4GB wrote:Kind of amusing how you guys are arguing over artistic "depth" when your two examples are most well-known for doing cover versions of somebody else's ORIGINAL work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...and Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf and Robert Johnson and, well, the list goes just on and on as to who Page ripped off, errrr, "covered."

I'm with you 100% on this train of thought, JnC.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:51 pm

JnC4GB wrote:Kind of amusing how you guys are arguing over artistic "depth" when your two examples are most well-known for doing cover versions of somebody else's ORIGINAL work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...and Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf and Robert Johnson and, well, the list goes just on and on as to who Page ripped off, errrr, "covered."

Really? Jimmy Page is *most well known* for work he doesn't hold the songwriting credits for? Please give me some examples of these tunes he is *most well known* for supercede his acclaim for his original work... That's got to be one of the more idiotic things I recall you've stated.

Secondly, JnC--please tell me that it is not lost upon you that artists from the beginning are influenced by the art that preceded them. I don't care if it's music or sculpture or paintings...contemporary evolves from historical. WTF? You and Duck huffing gas together now or what? Cool

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:57 pm

duck wrote:
JnC4GB wrote:Kind of amusing how you guys are arguing over artistic "depth" when your two examples are most well-known for doing cover versions of somebody else's ORIGINAL work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...and Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf and Robert Johnson and, well, the list goes just on and on as to who Page ripped off, errrr, "covered."

I'm with you 100% on this train of thought, JnC.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:18 pm

_HD_ wrote:
JnC4GB wrote:Kind of amusing how you guys are arguing over artistic "depth" when your two examples are most well-known for doing cover versions of somebody else's ORIGINAL work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...and Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf and Robert Johnson and, well, the list goes just on and on as to who Page ripped off, errrr, "covered."

Really? Jimmy Page is *most well known* for work he doesn't hold the songwriting credits for? Please give me some examples of these tunes he is *most well known* for supercede his acclaim for his original work... That's got to be one of the more idiotic things I recall you've stated.

Secondly, JnC--please tell me that it is not lost upon you that artists from the beginning are influenced by the art that preceded them. I don't care if it's music or sculpture or paintings...contemporary evolves from historical. WTF? You and Duck huffing gas together now or what?

Early Zeppelin borrowed heavily from the blues. I've got their first album in my hands and I notice that half the album is comprised of remakes of old blues songs: Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, You Shook Me, Dazed and Confused, and I can't Quit You Baby.

Yes, you are correct that both music and art cannibalize itself. However, it's also true that rock and roll as a genre has been particularly shameless in borrowing from the blues.

In general I would have to say I prefer the original blues stuff than the spiffed up remakes by the skinny little rockers in their fancy pants.

by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:43 pm

Yeah--just a rip-off artist, isn't he? Laughing

Crazy, I am-- on a ship of fools... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by JnC4GB Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:05 pm

On Led Zeppelin II, parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Willie Dixon‘s own "Bring It On Home". On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an “adaptation” of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972 Chess Records brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over this uncredited thievery. They settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.

Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were from Willie Dixon's "You Need Love." Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, also resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II then added Dixon as co-writer.

Led Zeppelin also paid an out-of-court settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.

Here's some more...

Led Zeppelin: Thieving Bastards

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Led Zeppelin are remembered for recording songs that rocked harder than any band had ever rocked before. Too bad a bunch of that shit was stolen.
Don't believe us? Well, here's a whole laundry list of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Consider their classic song "Dazed and Confused."A young Jake Holmes played a song of the same name (and chords, and lyrics kind of) at a show in 1967 where he was opening for The Yardbirds, who featured--say it with us!-- Jimmy Page on guitar. "Dazed and Confused" became a mainstay of The Yardbirds live sets and eventually found its way onto Zep's 1969 debut album, where it was credited to... nobody. Holmes never took legal action but he did eventually [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] asking for acknowledgement and maybe a little gas money if he could spare it (he could). The letter went unanswered.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But who cares, right? We're talking about Led Zeppelin here. The band who wrote "Stairway to Heaven" man! It's the most popular song in the history of sound! It's the song that was playing on the van stereo when your father shot the load that would become you into your mother's moist and eager lady parts! That one song is enough to secure the legacy of 10 bands!

Too bad they jacked that shit too. The opening notes (and easily the most recognizable part) of "Stairway" were taken almost note-for-note from a song called "Taurus" by Spirit.

How did nobody notice that? Because nobody knows who the hell Spirit is. But for the record, Led Zeppelin [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on their first U.S. tour, so it's safe to assume they were familiar with the band. Repaying an opening spot on a tour of the States by stealing a guitar riff is sad, but what's even sadder is that Spirit's guitarist, the awesomely named Randy California, knew exactly where "Stairway to Heaven" came from but was too nice of a guy to say anything - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They never did.

by duck Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:15 pm

JnC4GB wrote:On Led Zeppelin II, parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Willie Dixon‘s own "Bring It On Home". On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an “adaptation” of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972 Chess Records brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over this uncredited thievery. They settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.

Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were from Willie Dixon's "You Need Love." Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, also resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II then added Dixon as co-writer.

Led Zeppelin also paid an out-of-court settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.

Here's some more...

Led Zeppelin: Thieving Bastards

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Led Zeppelin are remembered for recording songs that rocked harder than any band had ever rocked before. Too bad a bunch of that shit was stolen.
Don't believe us? Well, here's a whole laundry list of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Consider their classic song "Dazed and Confused."A young Jake Holmes played a song of the same name (and chords, and lyrics kind of) at a show in 1967 where he was opening for The Yardbirds, who featured--say it with us!-- Jimmy Page on guitar. "Dazed and Confused" became a mainstay of The Yardbirds live sets and eventually found its way onto Zep's 1969 debut album, where it was credited to... nobody. Holmes never took legal action but he did eventually [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] asking for acknowledgement and maybe a little gas money if he could spare it (he could). The letter went unanswered.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But who cares, right? We're talking about Led Zeppelin here. The band who wrote "Stairway to Heaven" man! It's the most popular song in the history of sound! It's the song that was playing on the van stereo when your father shot the load that would become you into your mother's moist and eager lady parts! That one song is enough to secure the legacy of 10 bands!

Too bad they jacked that shit too. The opening notes (and easily the most recognizable part) of "Stairway" were taken almost note-for-note from a song called "Taurus" by Spirit.

How did nobody notice that? Because nobody knows who the hell Spirit is. But for the record, Led Zeppelin [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on their first U.S. tour, so it's safe to assume they were familiar with the band. Repaying an opening spot on a tour of the States by stealing a guitar riff is sad, but what's even sadder is that Spirit's guitarist, the awesomely named Randy California, knew exactly where "Stairway to Heaven" came from but was too nice of a guy to say anything - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They never did.

Nice job, JnC. I didn't know about all that. Somehow I'm not surprised at the lack of scruples of these little English rockers.

And just for the record, I still enjoy Jimmy Page and Zeppelin but they're hardly exceptional, as HD is promoting. Really, if I were to rattle off my top 40 or 50 recording artists, Zeppelin wouldn't come to mind.

In fact "average-to-good" comes to mind. Very Happy

by Sponsored content

Is that a good stink?

Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?

Re: Is that a good stink?