Do the Packers Miss John Dorsey?

TuckAndRoll wrote:Howdy Packer Fans.

I'm a KC Chief fan and I thought I'd come on over here and ask you folks what you all thought about the Chiefs new GM John Dorsey?

I know very little about his time with the Packers. My first impression of him was good. He comes off as a stand up, strictly business kind of guy but also exudes a lot of confidence about the future of the Chiefs. He recently referred to the Chiefs franchise as the crown jewel of the NFL!

As a proud Chiefs fan I welcome these kind words and his apparent appreciation of the history of this organization. But referring to the Chiefs as the crown jewel kind of made me feel like he was pouring it on a little to thick.

There is nothing I hate more than a snake oil salesman and I just hope to god that this boy has got the goods to back up that which is coming out of his mouth. That's why I was hoping you Packer Fans might know something more about him then what the KC propaganda press machine is willing to release.

We've had a hard, last few seasons here in KC and with these recent front office, coaching and QB changes, there is a feeling of renewed hope around here.

Your Packers team is always successful and it looks like they are set to make another run this season. I'm hoping ex-Packer John Dorsey and ex-Packer assistant coach Andy Reid bring some of that Packer style success to the Chiefs!

Best of luck to you all and I'm looking forward to stopping by now and then to talk some football.

My greatest concern, however, on John Dorsey--is that he took the job in KC top begin with.  We discussed this in some detail at the time.  There simply is no GM worth his stripes who would submit to accepting a job in a dysfunctional leadership hierarchy like KC promotes.  The fact he willingly accepted that job is just about as telling an indication as there is as to his caliber...but snake oil salesman?  No.  The man is high integrity and will always try to do the right thing as he tirelessly works his ass off for the organization.  The problem is--there really just isn't anything particularly exceptional about him...  He'll rap that 4-banger up to the redline for sure--but the bitch may overheat if you make it into the mountains...   

It's Andy Reid's show in KC.  He has complete control and as we saw in Philly--the success of his team's declined as Andy Reid grabbed more and more power.  If he just pulled back into a head coaching role--then you'd have something...but Clark Hunt has demonstrated that he is little more than an idiot in how he approached the whole makeover in power that brought Reid and Dorsey in, and, as they say--like the seed of genius--the seed of fools trickles down from the top... 

_HD_ wrote:

TuckAndRoll wrote:Howdy Packer Fans.

I'm a KC Chief fan and I thought I'd come on over here and ask you folks what you all thought about the Chiefs new GM John Dorsey?

I know very little about his time with the Packers. My first impression of him was good. He comes off as a stand up, strictly business kind of guy but also exudes a lot of confidence about the future of the Chiefs. He recently referred to the Chiefs franchise as the crown jewel of the NFL!

As a proud Chiefs fan I welcome these kind words and his apparent appreciation of the history of this organization. But referring to the Chiefs as the crown jewel kind of made me feel like he was pouring it on a little to thick.

There is nothing I hate more than a snake oil salesman and I just hope to god that this boy has got the goods to back up that which is coming out of his mouth. That's why I was hoping you Packer Fans might know something more about him then what the KC propaganda press machine is willing to release.

We've had a hard, last few seasons here in KC and with these recent front office, coaching and QB changes, there is a feeling of renewed hope around here.

Your Packers team is always successful and it looks like they are set to make another run this season. I'm hoping ex-Packer John Dorsey and ex-Packer assistant coach Andy Reid bring some of that Packer style success to the Chiefs!

Best of luck to you all and I'm looking forward to stopping by now and then to talk some football.

The parable of *Jesus and the Fishes* in the bible is very illustrative in scenarios like this in trying to separate the studs from the duds.  Many make the mistake in assuming that just because one has many fish--that one must be very good at fishing.  It's been my experience that few truly are good at actual fishing--but can become very good at collecting the collateral fish overflowing the nets of he/she they may be fortunate enough to affiliate with who is...and that's not a fisherman...

My sense is that Dorsey is one of those who diligently watched, studied, listened and learned--but in a formulaic way of how to fish, and thus to the extent that circumstances are repeatable in KC to how he operated in GB--he can be successful...but however mostly limited to that extent.  So then--is Dorsey a true fisherman?  No...but if he is capable and holds enough power in that organization to structure a system based on the model in GB--it could produce enough fish to keep everyone generally fed...  As you point out in his *crown jewel* reference...it's over the top and doesn't apply in KC.  However--that's what he learned in GB, where it does apply.  He saw Ron Wolf use it...he saw Mike Holmgren use it and he saw Ted Thompson use it.  Like I said--formulaic--he's trying to pound it in a hole where it just doesn't fit...  That's what he learned a GM needs to say...but a true fisherman doesn't go to new waters pan fishing with musky bait, eh?

My greatest concern, however, on John Dorsey--is that he took the job in KC top begin with.  We discussed this in some detail at the time.  There simply is no GM worth his stripes who would submit to accepting a job in a dysfunctional leadership hierarchy like KC promotes.  The fact he willingly accepted that job is just about as telling an indication as there is as to his caliber...but snake oil salesman?  No.  The man is high integrity and will always try to do the right thing as he tirelessly works his ass off for the organization.  The problem is--there really just isn't anything particularly exceptional about him...  He'll rap that 4-banger up to the redline for sure--but the bitch may overheat if you make it into the mountains...   

It's Andy Reid's show in KC.  He has complete control and as we saw in Philly--the success of his team's declined as Andy Reid grabbed more and more power.  If he just pulled back into a head coaching role--then you'd have something...but Clark Hunt has demonstrated that he is little more than an idiot in how he approached the whole makeover in power that brought Reid and Dorsey in, and, as they say--like the seed of genius--the seed of fools trickles down from the top... 

John Schneider was the front office man in GB who was the one to get...  His baskets will always be full because he knows how to fish.  Big difference in that from learning how to fish...

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

TuckAndRoll wrote:Howdy Packer Fans.

I'm a KC Chief fan and I thought I'd come on over here and ask you folks what you all thought about the Chiefs new GM John Dorsey?

I know very little about his time with the Packers. My first impression of him was good. He comes off as a stand up, strictly business kind of guy but also exudes a lot of confidence about the future of the Chiefs. He recently referred to the Chiefs franchise as the crown jewel of the NFL!

As a proud Chiefs fan I welcome these kind words and his apparent appreciation of the history of this organization. But referring to the Chiefs as the crown jewel kind of made me feel like he was pouring it on a little to thick.

There is nothing I hate more than a snake oil salesman and I just hope to god that this boy has got the goods to back up that which is coming out of his mouth. That's why I was hoping you Packer Fans might know something more about him then what the KC propaganda press machine is willing to release.

We've had a hard, last few seasons here in KC and with these recent front office, coaching and QB changes, there is a feeling of renewed hope around here.

Your Packers team is always successful and it looks like they are set to make another run this season. I'm hoping ex-Packer John Dorsey and ex-Packer assistant coach Andy Reid bring some of that Packer style success to the Chiefs!

Best of luck to you all and I'm looking forward to stopping by now and then to talk some football.

The parable of *Jesus and the Fishes* in the bible is very illustrative in scenarios like this in trying to separate the studs from the duds.  Many make the mistake in assuming that just because one has many fish--that one must be very good at fishing.  It's been my experience that few truly are good at actual fishing--but can become very good at collecting the collateral fish overflowing the nets of he/she they may be fortunate enough to affiliate with who is...and that's not a fisherman...

My sense is that Dorsey is one of those who diligently watched, studied, listened and learned--but in a formulaic way of how to fish, and thus to the extent that circumstances are repeatable in KC to how he operated in GB--he can be successful...but however mostly limited to that extent.  So then--is Dorsey a true fisherman?  No...but if he is capable and holds enough power in that organization to structure a system based on the model in GB--it could produce enough fish to keep everyone generally fed...  As you point out in his *crown jewel* reference...it's over the top and doesn't apply in KC.  However--that's what he learned in GB, where it does apply.  He saw Ron Wolf use it...he saw Mike Holmgren use it and he saw Ted Thompson use it.  Like I said--formulaic--he's trying to pound it in a hole where it just doesn't fit...  That's what he learned a GM needs to say...but a true fisherman doesn't go to new waters pan fishing with musky bait, eh?

My greatest concern, however, on John Dorsey--is that he took the job in KC top begin with.  We discussed this in some detail at the time.  There simply is no GM worth his stripes who would submit to accepting a job in a dysfunctional leadership hierarchy like KC promotes.  The fact he willingly accepted that job is just about as telling an indication as there is as to his caliber...but snake oil salesman?  No.  The man is high integrity and will always try to do the right thing as he tirelessly works his ass off for the organization.  The problem is--there really just isn't anything particularly exceptional about him...  He'll rap that 4-banger up to the redline for sure--but the bitch may overheat if you make it into the mountains...   

It's Andy Reid's show in KC.  He has complete control and as we saw in Philly--the success of his team's declined as Andy Reid grabbed more and more power.  If he just pulled back into a head coaching role--then you'd have something...but Clark Hunt has demonstrated that he is little more than an idiot in how he approached the whole makeover in power that brought Reid and Dorsey in, and, as they say--like the seed of genius--the seed of fools trickles down from the top... 

John Schneider was the front office man in GB who was the one to get...  His baskets will always be full because he knows how to fish.  Big difference in that from learning how to fish...

 

Wow.  Two thoughtful and well written posts.  We're too far away from the regular season for that!

I don't claim to have as much a handle on Dorsey's psyche as you, HD, but my sense is that, despite the shortcomings you outline, he could be decent.  As you suggest, he will likely be formulaic in his approach -- but the formula he learned in Green Bay and Seattle is a good one.  

Kansas City could do much worse than a young and enthusiastic executive diligently applying a proven formula.

_HD_ wrote:
The parable of *Jesus and the Fishes* in the bible is very illustrative in scenarios like this in trying to separate the studs from the duds.  Many make the mistake in assuming that just because one has many fish--that one must be very good at fishing.  It's been my experience that few truly are good at actual fishing--but can become very good at collecting the collateral fish overflowing the nets of he/she they may be fortunate enough to affiliate with who is...and that's not a fisherman...

My sense is that Dorsey is one of those who diligently watched, studied, listened and learned--but in a formulaic way of how to fish, and thus to the extent that circumstances are repeatable in KC to how he operated in GB--he can be successful...but however mostly limited to that extent.  So then--is Dorsey a true fisherman?  No...but if he is capable and holds enough power in that organization to structure a system based on the model in GB--it could produce enough fish to keep everyone generally fed...  As you point out in his *crown jewel* reference...it's over the top and doesn't apply in KC.  However--that's what he learned in GB, where it does apply.  He saw Ron Wolf use it...he saw Mike Holmgren use it and he saw Ted Thompson use it.  Like I said--formulaic--he's trying to pound it in a hole where it just doesn't fit...  That's what he learned a GM needs to say...but a true fisherman doesn't go to new waters pan fishing with musky bait, eh?

My greatest concern, however, on John Dorsey--is that he took the job in KC top begin with.  We discussed this in some detail at the time.  There simply is no GM worth his stripes who would submit to accepting a job in a dysfunctional leadership hierarchy like KC promotes.  The fact he willingly accepted that job is just about as telling an indication as there is as to his caliber...but snake oil salesman?  No.  The man is high integrity and will always try to do the right thing as he tirelessly works his ass off for the organization.  The problem is--there really just isn't anything particularly exceptional about him...  He'll rap that 4-banger up to the redline for sure--but the bitch may overheat if you make it into the mountains...   

It's Andy Reid's show in KC.  He has complete control and as we saw in Philly--the success of his team's declined as Andy Reid grabbed more and more power.  If he just pulled back into a head coaching role--then you'd have something...but Clark Hunt has demonstrated that he is little more than an idiot in how he approached the whole makeover in power that brought Reid and Dorsey in, and, as they say--like the seed of genius--the seed of fools trickles down from the top... 

John Schneider was the front office man in GB who was the one to get...  His baskets will always be full because he knows how to fish.  Big difference in that from learning how to fish...

duck wrote:

Wow.  Two thoughtful and well written posts.  We're too far away from the regular season for that!

I don't claim to have as much a handle on Dorsey's psyche as you, HD, but my sense is that, despite the shortcomings you outline, he could be decent.  As you suggest, he will likely be formulaic in his approach -- but the formula he learned in Green Bay and Seattle is a good one.  

Kansas City could do much worse than a young and enthusiastic executive diligently applying a proven formula.