Question 2 - Why no consequences for the Colts clear rule violation?

Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO


LOL.  I'm not buying it.  The rule is the rule.  Only the refs should check the balls.  Who is the league supposed to rely on?  The Colts intern?   Or their own ref?  The Colts should have not touched the ball, and then handed it over to the ref, and said, "please check this one."  I like your lawyerly argument though.

But my original question asking why no consequences was only meant half seriously, just to get under the skin of certain individuals.  As a Pats fan, when you see so many stupid trolling posts, you learn how to troll too. 

Oh wait, I know why there were no consequences for the Colts clear rule violation.  Its because the Commissioner is in the pocket of the Colts owner, and since they are best buddies, the Commissioner gives them preferential treatment where he lets rule violations slide. 

See, I can play this game too.

But really, it is distasteful to me.  All this ball psi, and the other tin foil hat conspiracy garbage is for losers.  When the Pats lost to the Giants, twice, I never cried about the refs, or made other excuses for losing.  The Giants beat them simply because they were better than the Pats.  As painful as those losses were, in the end I had to tip my cap to the Giants, and say, "Congrats, you got us good this time.  Well deserved.  Hopefully, we'll have a shot at a rematch someday."   That's all.  America has basically lost its mind.  Rather than acknowledge you got beat on the field, we now have to cry foul for some made up bullshit reason to try to tarnish the winner.  Sad.  

 

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Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO

George1963 wrote:

Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO

Leave common sense out of this please. Guppy's making yet another of his killer points. One of his "Lots of people who we aren't really talking about right now may or may not have done something that may or may not have been against the rules at some point in history, so the Patriots are innocent. And deserve an apology." points.
I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Steelers doing steroids in the '70s or me drinking beer in the 80's yet.

Admin wrote:

George1963 wrote:

Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO

Leave common sense out of this please. Guppy's making yet another of his killer points. One of his "Lots of people who we aren't really talking about right now may or may not have done something that may or may not have been against the rules at some point in history, so the Patriots are innocent. And deserve an apology." points.
I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Steelers doing steroids in the '70s or me drinking beer in the 80's yet.

Give him time George.... give him time! LOL.


You talk about "common sense" after typing one of the most common sense lacking posts in the history of the world?  LMAO.  Lets see.  What you guys are saying is that it was OK for the Colts intern to put a gauge in the ball,take matters into his own hands, and check it himself, even though Rule 2 says only the official can do such a thing and that the referee is the "sole judge" of whether the balls comply. 

Got it. 

You clowns are beautiful.  Just beautiful.

guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

George1963 wrote:

Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO

Leave common sense out of this please. Guppy's making yet another of his killer points. One of his "Lots of people who we aren't really talking about right now may or may not have done something that may or may not have been against the rules at some point in history, so the Patriots are innocent. And deserve an apology." points.
I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Steelers doing steroids in the '70s or me drinking beer in the 80's yet.

Give him time George.... give him time! LOL.


You talk about "common sense" after typing one of the most common sense lacking posts in the history of the world?  LMAO.  Lets see.  What you guys are saying is that it was OK for the Colts intern to put a gauge in the ball,take matters into his own hands, and check it himself, even though Rule 2 says only the official can do such a thing and that the referee is the "sole judge" of whether the balls comply. 

Got it. 

You clowns are beautiful.  Just beautiful.

The ball was out of play. They could have filled it up with propane and stuck a fuse in it if they felt like it. Are you too dim to understand that?

guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

George1963 wrote:

Phil2010 wrote:Ill take a jab at answering the question. I think that it's intended for each teams own balls so when Colts checked NE balls this rule didn't apply & I think its intended for balls that would be used on the field of play. Once Colts intercepted Brady's pass that ball was not going to be used on the field of play once taken to Colts side line. IMHO

Leave common sense out of this please. Guppy's making yet another of his killer points. One of his "Lots of people who we aren't really talking about right now may or may not have done something that may or may not have been against the rules at some point in history, so the Patriots are innocent. And deserve an apology." points.
I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Steelers doing steroids in the '70s or me drinking beer in the 80's yet.

Give him time George.... give him time! LOL.


You talk about "common sense" after typing one of the most common sense lacking posts in the history of the world?  LMAO.  Lets see.  What you guys are saying is that it was OK for the Colts intern to put a gauge in the ball,take matters into his own hands, and check it himself, even though Rule 2 says only the official can do such a thing and that the referee is the "sole judge" of whether the balls comply. 

Got it. 

You clowns are beautiful.  Just beautiful.

Admin wrote:

I'm just glad you had a healthy breakfast!


But you apparently did not.  You'll get over it eventually.


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guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

I'm just glad you had a healthy breakfast!


But you apparently did not.  You'll get over it eventually.


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Admin wrote:

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That's actually a very good picture.... one of a crying child in a patriots jersey.... most fitting if I say.


Actually, if you look again, not a Patriots jersey, but a "Hatriots" jersey. 

Its the new style made for dimwits so obsessed with the Patriots, and obsessed with a so-called "missing" amount of air less than a baby's fart, that they can't even think or comment about their own team.  Just the Patriots.  Only the Patriots. 



You want to listen to something intelligent on the subject?   If you do, you do.   If you don't, you don't.  I couldn't care less.  But if you do, its available.  Its Mike Florio from NBC and NBC Sports Pro Football Talk being interviewed.  There is the article, and there also is the podcast of him being interviewed which you can listen to.  He's a lawyer and a very smart, successful and respected football commentator.  I'm sure you know who he is.  He thinks the Wells Report is just so much toilet paper.  He also thinks it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the science in the Wells Report is total garbage.  I'd have to agree that the AEI Report did pretty much prove that. 

Like I said, listen to Mike Florio if you want.  

Or don't.  Makes no difference to me. 

Its really more for people who keep open minds.  Your choice. 

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George1963 wrote:He also thinks it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the science in the Wells Report is total garbage.  I'd have to agree that the AEI Report did pretty much prove that. 





AEI is a legitimate outfit. But they DID NOT prove the Wells Report was garbage. They used a different method, and came up with slightly different results.

I read every word of both. And it was a slog for me. I'm more of a soft science guy. But the most glaring error in the AEI report TO ME was the idea that the Colts balls would have come back up to pressure during the 12 minutes that the Patriots balls were being tested.

They'd actually do that instanty after the last (soft) Pats ball was tested.

C'mon. 16 balls start at the same pressure come from an hour and a half in 50 degrees to  68 for 15 min.

Did you really just say that the Pats 12 balls and the Colts 4 balls started at the same pressure?


The first 12 you test are low and the last four are OK.

Did you really just say that the last four (the Colts) were all OK?


The pressure, based on natural influences, rises instantly?

Guppy, I like you. I really do. But are you stupid?


As stupid as this guy:

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"Deflategate.  A Juicy False Story Trumps The Facts.  Again!"

Conclusions



The Wells report shows clearly that Patriots balls were at exactly the right pressure for the temperature at which they were exposed during the game.  This means there was no rules violation.  And that therefore Tom Brady could not have been “generally aware” of wrongdoing, as he has been accused, since there was no wrongdoing.  

 

What is disturbing about the Wells report is that it fails to mention the key information that would have caused this entire Deflategate saga to disappear, as it should have.  It failed to mention that the intercepted Patriots ball, and the 11 Patriots balls measured at half-time, were all at the right pressure after being exposed to approximately 50F. The failure to note evidence contrary to one’s conclusions is a common method to persuade readers to believe something incorrect.

More.....


I'm not the stupid one. 

Just the jealous agenda-driven sheeple.

guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

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That's actually a very good picture.... one of a crying child in a patriots jersey.... most fitting if I say.


Actually, if you look again, not a Patriots jersey, but a "Hatriots" jersey. 

Its the new style made for dimwits so obsessed with the Patriots, and obsessed with a so-called "missing" amount of air less than a baby's fart, that they can't even think or comment about their own team.  Just the Patriots.  Only the Patriots. 



You want to listen to something intelligent on the subject?   If you do, you do.   If you don't, you don't.  I couldn't care less.  But if you do, its available.  Its Mike Florio from NBC and NBC Sports Pro Football Talk being interviewed.  There is the article, and there also is the podcast of him being interviewed which you can listen to.  He's a lawyer and a very smart, successful and respected football commentator.  I'm sure you know who he is.  He thinks the Wells Report is just so much toilet paper.  He also thinks it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the science in the Wells Report is total garbage.  I'd have to agree that the AEI Report did pretty much prove that. 

Like I said, listen to Mike Florio if you want.  

Or don't.  Makes no difference to me. 

Its really more for people who keep open minds.  Your choice. 

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Admin wrote:

Like most Patriot fans, you think it is about the science.... it is not. It IS about the fact your team got caught cheating.... AGAIN!  

Actually, its not.  They did not get caught "cheating".  The multimillion dollar Wells investigation FAILED to come up with actual evidence of ball tampering.  So, in order to justify the millions they got paid, the best they could do was offer an opinion, using a low standard of proof, based on weak circumstantial evidence, that "something" must have happened.  If the science supports natural loss of pressure, everything else after that become a non-factor.  So it is about science.  Either the Commissioner will acknowledge that, or if he doesn't, eventually, the federal court will.     

Can you comprehend that? Again....You can rationalize it all you want. You can say other teams cheat as well... But the fact remains.... Even if they do.... They didn't get caught... So- that being said..... maybe Billicheat and Lady Brady are not the gods you all claim them to be. 

Its Belichamp, not Billicheat.  Six rings (2 with the Giants) says so.  Are you another one that thinks Belichamp is guilty of something, even though Wells says he, or any coach, was not?  Do you simply want to make that unsupported assumption, just because you don't like him personally, and that's simply what haters do?  Just make up their own facts as they go along?  Would love to hear your answer to that one.  In your opinion, is Bill Belichick guilty of anything here, yes or no?  If your answer is "yes", kindly summarize your factual basis for your conclusion.

Maybe, just maybe, the hatred by the rest of NFL fans is somewhat justified? Or am I talking too far above your level?

The "hatred" is born out of jealousy and a certain perception, not facts.  It is a natural human response that people get tired of, or annoyed with, the same person/team being at or near the top.  People want to see someone different succeed.  Its natural.  I get that.  That's the very basic "level" we are dealing with here. 

What bothers me most the the out-of-proportion and over the top, over-reaction response to the Patriots as compared to others.  Was your "outrage" the same when you heard Jerry Rice confess he used stickum (cheating)?  Was it the same when you heard Joe Montana confess that his linemen used silicone on their jerseys (cheating)?  Do you really think the severity of the Patriots penalties were appropriate when you know that the Vikings and Panthers were simply told to stop warming the balls up on the sideline against the rules, and the Chargers got a little slap on the wrist fine for using sticky towels against the rules?  Was the level of your outrage to these incidents of "cheating" the same as it was for the Patriots?  Do you think these are fair comparisons?

As far as Brady and Belichick being football "gods", show me where I said that.  Their level of accomplishment over 15 years -- which exceeds any other coach and QB -- speaks for itself.  They don't need me to speak for them.  Their record does it for them just fine.  They will both walk in to the HOF once they're done.  Or do you dispute that? 

Hypothetically, do you think a little puff of air in a ball makes any difference one way or the other?  You do know in the 2nd half of the Colts game, with a little puff of air put back in the ball, Brady and the Patriots actually did better?  "Deflation" didn't help.  Just the opposite.  It hurt.  You know the Pats outscored the Colts 28-0 in the 2nd half with the balls at 12.5, right?  Further, you know that in clutch time, the 4th Q of the superbowl, Brady was brilliant, going 13-15 for 124 yards, including 8-8 on the winning drive and never faced a third down, right?   You know he did all that with 12.5 psi balls, right? 

Soooooo, what did you think of the last 6 quarters of football the Patriots played?  All with 12.5 psi balls?      

Do any of these facts matter to you?

"Or am I talking too far above your level?"

Admin wrote:

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Like most Patriot fans, you think it is about the science.... it is not. It IS about the fact your team got caught cheating.... AGAIN!   Can you comprehend that? Again....You can rationalize it all you want. You can say other teams cheat as well... But the fact remains.... Even if they do.... They didn't get caught... So- that being said..... maybe Billicheat and Lady Brady are not the gods you all claim them to be.  Maybe, just maybe, the hatred by the rest of NFL fans is somewhat justified? Or am I talking too far above your level?

So did you read and/or listen to Mike Florio or not?

Or did you just say in advance, "Nah, I don't need to hear that.  That wouldn't fit with the narrative I have signed on to"?


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guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

Like most Patriot fans, you think it is about the science.... it is not. It IS about the fact your team got caught cheating.... AGAIN!  

Actually, its not.  They did not get caught "cheating".  The multimillion dollar Wells investigation FAILED to come up with actual evidence of ball tampering.  So, in order to justify the millions they got paid, the best they could do was offer an opinion, using a low standard of proof, based on weak circumstantial evidence, that "something" must have happened.  If the science supports natural loss of pressure, everything else after that become a non-factor.  So it is about science.  Either the Commissioner will acknowledge that, or if he doesn't, eventually, the federal court will.     

Can you comprehend that? Again....You can rationalize it all you want. You can say other teams cheat as well... But the fact remains.... Even if they do.... They didn't get caught... So- that being said..... maybe Billicheat and Lady Brady are not the gods you all claim them to be. 

Its Belichamp, not Billicheat.  Six rings (2 with the Giants) says so.  Are you another one that thinks Belichamp is guilty of something, even though Wells says he, or any coach, was not?  Do you simply want to make that unsupported assumption, just because you don't like him personally, and that's simply what haters do?  Just make up their own facts as they go along?  Would love to hear your answer to that one.  In your opinion, is Bill Belichick guilty of anything here, yes or no?  If your answer is "yes", kindly summarize your factual basis for your conclusion.

Maybe, just maybe, the hatred by the rest of NFL fans is somewhat justified? Or am I talking too far above your level?

The "hatred" is born out of jealousy and a certain perception, not facts.  It is a natural human response that people get tired of, or annoyed with, the same person/team being at or near the top.  People want to see someone different succeed.  Its natural.  I get that.  That's the very basic "level" we are dealing with here. 

What bothers me most the the out-of-proportion and over the top, over-reaction response to the Patriots as compared to others.  Was your "outrage" the same when you heard Jerry Rice confess he used stickum (cheating)?  Was it the same when you heard Joe Montana confess that his linemen used silicone on their jerseys (cheating)?  Do you really think the severity of the Patriots penalties were appropriate when you know that the Vikings and Panthers were simply told to stop warming the balls up on the sideline against the rules, and the Chargers got a little slap on the wrist fine for using sticky towels against the rules?  Was the level of your outrage to these incidents of "cheating" the same as it was for the Patriots?  Do you think these are fair comparisons?

As far as Brady and Belichick being football "gods", show me where I said that.  Their level of accomplishment over 15 years -- which exceeds any other coach and QB -- speaks for itself.  They don't need me to speak for them.  Their record does it for them just fine.  They will both walk in to the HOF once they're done.  Or do you dispute that? 

Hypothetically, do you think a little puff of air in a ball makes any difference one way or the other?  You do know in the 2nd half of the Colts game, with a little puff of air put back in the ball, Brady and the Patriots actually did better?  "Deflation" didn't help.  Just the opposite.  It hurt.  You know the Pats outscored the Colts 28-0 in the 2nd half with the balls at 12.5, right?  Further, you know that in clutch time, the 4th Q of the superbowl, Brady was brilliant, going 13-15 for 124 yards, including 8-8 on the winning drive and never faced a third down, right?   You know he did all that with 12.5 psi balls, right? 

Soooooo, what did you think of the last 6 quarters of football the Patriots played?  All with 12.5 psi balls?      

Do any of these facts matter to you?

"Or am I talking too far above your level?"

George1963 wrote:

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Dr. Abraham Morgentaler, MD
200 Boylston St A309, Chestnut Hill, MA


Noted expert in hypogonadism.
Also, I assume, an amateur attorney, gas physicist, and Patriots fan.
So yea. Just about as stupid as this guy.


Hahaha.  More stupid name calling as a way of ignoring the actual substance of what is said.  Predictably pathetic.   Like I've said so many time, you just try toooo hard to be the flag carrier for Patriot Hater Nation.  Its so transparently funny.

Hey, here's another great article from the Washington Post.

Don't read it.

Call the author names instead.

You've got that move down pat. 




Roger Goodell can restore a sense of loftiness to the NFL commissioner’s office with a simple expedited decision. He should lift the suspension on Tom Brady this week and turn his disciplinary eye on the vague, sloppily enforced league rules that caused DeflateGate in the first place. This is his best way out of this infernal case, which is as damaging to Goodell and the league office as it is to Brady and the New England Patriots.

Goodell is due to receive briefs in Brady’s appeal of his four-game suspension this week, but that’s not what is holding up a decision. DeflateGate has become such a highly politicized affair that it’s difficult for Goodell to reach a verdict that won’t undermine his office. If Goodell lifts the suspension, he implicitly casts aspersions on the work he assigned Ted Wells, the league’s legal-partner-investigator whose report cost $5 million and yet [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. But if he leaves the suspension in place, it will be an obvious abuse of power based on highly questionable evidence and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to strip the commissioner of his disciplinary powers for lacking fairness and neutrality.

Sally Jenkins is a sports columnist for The Washington Post. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

• [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
  

Do you see a negotiated peace between those two options? I don’t. But there is a third way out of this mess, if Goodell has the insight to find it and to take it. The beauty of this third way is that it’s based in the truth. He can rule that there simply isn’t enough evidence to make a fair decision and decline to assign blame. He should instead declare that the primary lack of integrity in this situation rested not with Brady or Wells, but with the NFL’s lax protocols governing the game balls.

Goodell can legitimately say that it is impossible for him to evaluate “the preponderance of evidence” for the simple reason that there is none. The referees at the AFC championship game failed to write any of their pregame ball measurements down. This single but crucial fact tends to go unmentioned in all of the argument over pounds per square inch and the Ideal Gas Law. The intellectual skirmishing over results by the science by consultant Exponent that cannot be replicated, the armchair analysis by everyone from statisticians at the American Enterprise Institute to weathermen?

All of their numbers are guesses.

Where does Tom Brady rank among all-time greats?(3:23)

After winning his fourth Super Bowl, New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has cemented his legacy as one of the best NFL players of all time. The Post Sports Live crew debates where he ranks among the elite. (Post Sport Live/The Washington Post)

Each team provided 12 game balls, and it was referee Walt Anderson’s job to check that they were pressurized according to the rulebook that circumscribes inflation levels of anywhere from 12.5 to 13.5 psi. According to his best recollection, he recalls the Patriots’ balls were somewhere around the 12.5 level, while the Indianapolis Colts’ balls were at 13.5. He thinks.

Why not double-check, you ask?

Because he didn’t write anything down.

Here is where this entire affair begins to smell so bad that you need an atomizer to clear the air. Despite this uncertainty, a “league source” the following day leaked a false and highly prejudicial report to ESPN that 11 of 12 footballs were more than two pounds under pressure. The story was wildly incorrect and irrevocably poisoned the well for the Patriots, yet the supposedly neutral commissioner never bothered to correct it. He then ratcheted the whole thing up further by hiring Wells to launch a million-dollar investigation.

The trouble is, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] was never going to get past the lack of accurate or even measurable data. Referee Anderson also recalls that two gauges were available, one of which gave higher readings. Which one did he use? He thinks he used the higher one — but he didn’t write that down either. Now, it would have been really, really good if he had written those things down. Because if he had, everything that comes after in the Wells report wouldn’t be just projection and guesswork.

The NFL can’t know the meaning of measurements at halftime, and whether they showed the footballs were irregularly deflated, if there is no way to know for certain what they were at the start. Or what the temperatures were in the rooms in which they were measured. How hot or cold was it — a crucial factor in measuring the effect of the ideal gas law? Not written down either.

It’s not Wells’s fault that he was assigned the job of writing a scientific report based on no data. As physicist-blogger Drew Fustin observes, to call something scientifically certain, “I’d expect to have the pre-game measurements carefully recorded, along with the room temperature at the time of the recording,” he writes. Also the atmospheric pressure, and the relative humidity. For instance, if Exponent projected that the temp in a room was 70 degrees, that might be reasonable. Unless there were a dozen people crowded in it.

What #DeflateGate means for the Patriots' legacy(3:09)

The Post Sports Live panel weighs in on how the NFL's investigation into whether the Patriots deflated footballs before their AFC championship game against the Colts affects the team's legacy. (Post Sports Live/The Washington Post)

The inability to say whether the balls were tampered with renders all of the other evidence, such as phone calls, open to interpretation. Wells has tried to argue that text messages between Brady and equipment managers are “direct evidence and inculpatory,” but that’s nonsense. The NFL’s own rules allow quarterbacks from each team to choose and massage balls to their liking and to tell equipment managers how much to inflate them. There are no messages in which Brady directs that footballs be set at illegal levels. In fact, according to the Wells report, at one point Brady instructed the managers to show the rulebook to refs who had overinflated some game balls.

Based on this, Goodell is expected to render certainty? He should refuse to do it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] depends on his ability to put fairness above office politics. His proper focus should be on improving league protocols, not reading unintelligible gas equations based on blanks.

League officials, not the teams, should be in charge preparing one set of game balls, with the pressure and game conditions carefully noted. And they should use regulation gauges that are coherently calibrated, not tire gauges from the trunks of their cars.

Goodell’s predecessors Paul Tagliabue and Pete Rozelle were certainly conflicted and engaged in infighting, but when it came to disciplinary matters, they were able to preserve the idea that they hovered a foot above the fray. All good commissioners do. Goodell has lowered himself in DeflateGate, ironically over a matter of air. The only way to put some loft back into his office is with a speedy, fair dismissal.



Begin name calling of the author of this article in 3...2....1....

God, your "arguments" are so unimpressive.