Clay gets some pay...

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

_HD_ wrote:Report: Clay Matthews deal is done


Posted by Darin Gantt on April 17, 2013, 2:43 PM EDT
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Reuters
One down, one to go.

According to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network, the Packers and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and he is expected to sign it today. PFT has also confirmed the report.

This deal has been [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for weeks, and there was a sense that it could go down hand-in-hand with an [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] deal.

We’ll see if that happens today, but getting Matthews locked up long-term is a huge move for an organization that has moved carefully and deliberately this offseason.

If they can lock up their quarterback and one of the game’s top young pass-rushers, the waiting will be worth it.

UPDATE 2:46 p.m. ET: Well, there you go. Matthews [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

It's really too late to gain a number of significant cap efficiencies/Free agents now, Duck... For example--they've already paid Finley a $3M roster bonus a couple of weeks ago. That goes right on this years cap...and most capable free agents have already found a home. They should have secured a solid LT somewhere and a solid D lineman. About all they can do now is...

1) Cut Mason Crosby. ($3.5M saved)

2) Negotiate paycut/release for Kuhn. ($1.5M-$3M saved)

2) Sign Finley to long-term deal. (optimum timing for this has passed-but Finley's cap number could still be decreased by $2-4M...

3) Do NOT sign Rodgers to extension until after next season.

5) Sign James Jones to extension

6) Sign Raji to an extension

Boom--they're capped out. Sign Rodgers now and you can kiss the ass of James Jones, Raji and probably Finley goodbye... Next year they have similar issues with Jordy Nelson, Desmond Bishop, Bulaga and fucking Randall Cobb all coming due...

This was their year to load the boat and make the run, Duck--because they will have no choice but to extend Rodgers after this next season and preclude the possibility financially...

Now the paint-thinner brigade starts to gain the perspective on why it was so fucking criminally irresponsible for TT to offer $13 fucking million/year to Greg Jennings when he did--because on the back end--you're going to lose an additional one of these other younger playmakers because of it... You see Duck--I've never actually studied it fortunately--but never getting laid and perpetually shielding yourself from the sun makes you dull, pasty, stupid and senseless...Just ask Ted.

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

It's really too late to gain a number of significant cap efficiencies/Free agents now, Duck... For example--they've already paid Finley a $3M roster bonus a couple of weeks ago. That goes right on this years cap...and most capable free agents have already found a home. They should have secured a solid LT somewhere and a solid D lineman. About all they can do now is...

1) Cut Mason Crosby. ($3.5M saved)

2) Negotiate paycut/release for Kuhn. ($1.5M-$3M saved)

2) Sign Finley to long-term deal. (optimum timing for this has passed-but Finley's cap number could still be decreased by $2-4M...

3) Do NOT sign Rodgers to extension until after next season.

5) Sign James Jones to extension

6) Sign Raji to an extension

Boom--they're capped out. Sign Rodgers now and you can kiss the ass of James Jones, Raji and probably Finley goodbye... Next year they have similar issues with Jordy Nelson, Desmond Bishop, Bulaga and fucking Randall Cobb all coming due...

This was their year to load the boat and make the run, Duck--because they will have no choice but to extend Rodgers after this next season and preclude the possibility financially...

Now the paint-thinner brigade starts to gain the perspective on why it was so fucking criminally irresponsible for TT to offer $13 fucking million/year to Greg Jennings when he did--because on the back end--you're going to lose an additional one of these other younger playmakers because of it... You see Duck--I've never actually studied it fortunately--but never getting laid and perpetually shielding yourself from the sun makes you dull, pasty, stupid and senseless...Just ask Ted.

Agreed with your six points, HD. However, they are nickels and dimes in the bigger picture.

My real question is a much broader one. As I tied to outline previously, what kind of a strategy do you think should TT pursue, in terms of configuring the level of the Packers' competitiveness: should he try to optimize a given year with a concerted push for another Lombardi, or spread things out and remain competitive (although not necessarily the favorite) for a longer period of time?

It seems to me like TT is playing for the latter, and I tilt towards that strategy because injuries are the great (and random) equalizer, and once you get into the postseason tournament you never know what is going to happen. However, there are some merits to stacking the chips up when you know you have the best shot, and I was just wondering what you thought of these two strategies.

Timing/circumstances dictate your strategy--just as they always do... That's what I've been harping on as TT's greatest deficiency. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of product life cycle--and how your stategy for player acquisition should correspondingly evolve and be centered on leveraging the greatest value out of your primary assets once you reach the point of such disparity in the value of your player assets. Once you have 1/3 of your cap tied up in two players, for example--your greatest efficiency is gained through building your team around them. That means it should have been a fucking PRIORITY to do something at LT, for example--or do you suppose that TT believes Marshall Newhouse is going to magically fucking develop into a player? We don't have the luxury of time in wasting the reps of a $22M/yr asset while some newly-minted project may/may not develop into a reliable protector of that asset's blindside. Rogers could be sliding down the backside by then--or in a wheelchair for that matter. Same thing with Matthews. He throws away Jenkins for next to nothing and now three seasons later STILL has no one who can pull the 2nd and even 3rd man off Matthews. TT is hardwired that way--his greatest pride is taking these late round scrubs and trying to make them into something. That's a great project. Save it for the next fucking birdhouse in woodshop class, asshole...

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_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

It's really too late to gain a number of significant cap efficiencies/Free agents now, Duck... For example--they've already paid Finley a $3M roster bonus a couple of weeks ago. That goes right on this years cap...and most capable free agents have already found a home. They should have secured a solid LT somewhere and a solid D lineman. About all they can do now is...

1) Cut Mason Crosby. ($3.5M saved)

2) Negotiate paycut/release for Kuhn. ($1.5M-$3M saved)

2) Sign Finley to long-term deal. (optimum timing for this has passed-but Finley's cap number could still be decreased by $2-4M...

3) Do NOT sign Rodgers to extension until after next season.

5) Sign James Jones to extension

6) Sign Raji to an extension

Boom--they're capped out. Sign Rodgers now and you can kiss the ass of James Jones, Raji and probably Finley goodbye... Next year they have similar issues with Jordy Nelson, Desmond Bishop, Bulaga and fucking Randall Cobb all coming due...

This was their year to load the boat and make the run, Duck--because they will have no choice but to extend Rodgers after this next season and preclude the possibility financially...

Now the paint-thinner brigade starts to gain the perspective on why it was so fucking criminally irresponsible for TT to offer $13 fucking million/year to Greg Jennings when he did--because on the back end--you're going to lose an additional one of these other younger playmakers because of it... You see Duck--I've never actually studied it fortunately--but never getting laid and perpetually shielding yourself from the sun makes you dull, pasty, stupid and senseless...Just ask Ted.

Agreed with your six points, HD. However, they are nickels and dimes in the bigger picture.

My real question is a much broader one. As I tied to outline previously, what kind of a strategy do you think should TT pursue, in terms of configuring the level of the Packers' competitiveness: should he try to optimize a given year with a concerted push for another Lombardi, or spread things out and remain competitive (although not necessarily the favorite) for a longer period of time?

It seems to me like TT is playing for the latter, and I tilt towards that strategy because injuries are the great (and random) equalizer, and once you get into the postseason tournament you never know what is going to happen. However, there are some merits to stacking the chips up when you know you have the best shot, and I was just wondering what you thought of these two strategies.

Timing/circumstances dictate your strategy--just as they always do... That's what I've been harping on as TT's greatest deficiency. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of product life cycle--and how your stategy for player acquisition should correspondingly evolve and be centered on leveraging the greatest value out of your primary assets once you reach the point of such disparity in the value of your player assets. Once you have 1/3 of your cap tied up in two players, for example--your greatest efficiency is gained through building your team around them. That means it should have been a fucking PRIORITY to do something at LT, for example--or do you suppose that TT believes Marshall Newhouse is going to magically fucking develop into a player? We don't have the luxury of time in wasting the reps of a $22M/yr asset while some newly-minted project may/may not develop into a reliable protector of that asset's blindside. Rogers could be sliding down the backside by then--or in a wheelchair for that matter. Same thing with Matthews. He throws away Jenkins for next to nothing and now three seasons later STILL has no one who can pull the 2nd and even 3rd man off Matthews. TT is hardwired that way--his greatest pride is taking these late round scrubs and trying to make them into something. That's a great project. Save it for the next fucking birdhouse in woodshop class, asshole...

The core has been built--the urgency to plug in the last remaining pieces should be NOW and put that warship out to sea to blow some holes in shit and litter the bottom of the pond with other team's dreams WHILE THE GUNS (Rodgers/Matthews) still pack some punch, eh?

Finally--your *nickles/dimes* comment reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of how precious those cap dollars are for this team right now and into the future. The Cap was $123M last season... What I outlined for moves--even now, after it's too late to have really made some impact--is about $8M or 6.5% of the cap. That's huge--for it means retaining one additional playmaker with recycled money that wasn't really carrying any water before. In fairness, he did pull a straight paycut out of Hawk. That should have been just the beginning and not the end... What's frustrating is that this team is just a half step from going over the top--but those in command lack the perspective to see where they are--and where they will not arrive--unless they wake up and start doing what it takes to capitalize on this fucking opportunity they have that most teams in the league would give their left nut to have. One/done is what this team is spec'd to achieve--and when you have the luxury of the best QB probably EVER--right in the peak of his prime--that's pathetic...

The bottom line is these people are WAY too comfortable in their roles. Murphy is worthless...and McCarthy, by virtue of his retention of Capers and Crosby among others with inadequate performance--obviously feels no pressure from TT to make any changes and step up his game... When was the last time you remember seeing anything in the way of a bold move coming out of this team? Don't rock the boat-- Here Donald--you little star-dancer--take $2.6M to stand on the sidelines so we don't have to face the fallout of what some would consider to be a tough decision... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As a consultant coming in to advise the board--I'd recommend that a shakeup be affected there in some manner to wake these people up and set them more on the edge. Comfort brings complacency--and this leadership team is leaving way too much on the table to expect this team moving forward to be anything special.

One more year for McCarthy. Anything less than the NFC Championship game--and his Shrek ass is down the road.

duck wrote:Once you have 1/3 of your cap tied up in two players



I'm confused on this, HD. I did a little research and this link provided cap information on all the Packer players. Now these are based on the old numbers, but even if we factor in huge contracts for Matthews and Rodgers, I don't see where the two of them would suck up the necessary $41M to equal 1/3 of the $123M cap space.

A huge number for two players to be sure, but 33.3% --???


[url=http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Packers&Year=2013

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

It's really too late to gain a number of significant cap efficiencies/Free agents now, Duck... For example--they've already paid Finley a $3M roster bonus a couple of weeks ago. That goes right on this years cap...and most capable free agents have already found a home. They should have secured a solid LT somewhere and a solid D lineman. About all they can do now is...

1) Cut Mason Crosby. ($3.5M saved)

2) Negotiate paycut/release for Kuhn. ($1.5M-$3M saved)

2) Sign Finley to long-term deal. (optimum timing for this has passed-but Finley's cap number could still be decreased by $2-4M...

3) Do NOT sign Rodgers to extension until after next season.

5) Sign James Jones to extension

6) Sign Raji to an extension

Boom--they're capped out. Sign Rodgers now and you can kiss the ass of James Jones, Raji and probably Finley goodbye... Next year they have similar issues with Jordy Nelson, Desmond Bishop, Bulaga and fucking Randall Cobb all coming due...

This was their year to load the boat and make the run, Duck--because they will have no choice but to extend Rodgers after this next season and preclude the possibility financially...

Now the paint-thinner brigade starts to gain the perspective on why it was so fucking criminally irresponsible for TT to offer $13 fucking million/year to Greg Jennings when he did--because on the back end--you're going to lose an additional one of these other younger playmakers because of it... You see Duck--I've never actually studied it fortunately--but never getting laid and perpetually shielding yourself from the sun makes you dull, pasty, stupid and senseless...Just ask Ted.

Agreed with your six points, HD. However, they are nickels and dimes in the bigger picture.

My real question is a much broader one. As I tied to outline previously, what kind of a strategy do you think should TT pursue, in terms of configuring the level of the Packers' competitiveness: should he try to optimize a given year with a concerted push for another Lombardi, or spread things out and remain competitive (although not necessarily the favorite) for a longer period of time?

It seems to me like TT is playing for the latter, and I tilt towards that strategy because injuries are the great (and random) equalizer, and once you get into the postseason tournament you never know what is going to happen. However, there are some merits to stacking the chips up when you know you have the best shot, and I was just wondering what you thought of these two strategies.

Timing/circumstances dictate your strategy--just as they always do... That's what I've been harping on as TT's greatest deficiency. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of product life cycle--and how your stategy for player acquisition should correspondingly evolve and be centered on leveraging the greatest value out of your primary assets once you reach the point of such disparity in the value of your player assets. Once you have 1/3 of your cap tied up in two players, for example--your greatest efficiency is gained through building your team around them. That means it should have been a fucking PRIORITY to do something at LT, for example--or do you suppose that TT believes Marshall Newhouse is going to magically fucking develop into a player? We don't have the luxury of time in wasting the reps of a $22M/yr asset while some newly-minted project may/may not develop into a reliable protector of that asset's blindside. Rogers could be sliding down the backside by then--or in a wheelchair for that matter. Same thing with Matthews. He throws away Jenkins for next to nothing and now three seasons later STILL has no one who can pull the 2nd and even 3rd man off Matthews. TT is hardwired that way--his greatest pride is taking these late round scrubs and trying to make them into something. That's a great project. Save it for the next fucking birdhouse in woodshop class, asshole...

The core has been built--the urgency to plug in the last remaining pieces should be NOW and put that warship out to sea to blow some holes in shit and litter the bottom of the pond with other team's dreams WHILE THE GUNS (Rodgers/Matthews) still pack some punch, eh?

Finally--your *nickles/dimes* comment reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of how precious those cap dollars are for this team right now and into the future. The Cap was $123M last season... What I outlined for moves--even now, after it's too late to have really made some impact--is about $8M or 6.5% of the cap. That's huge--for it means retaining one additional playmaker with recycled money that wasn't really carrying any water before. In fairness, he did pull a straight paycut out of Hawk. That should have been just the beginning and not the end... What's frustrating is that this team is just a half step from going over the top--but those in command lack the perspective to see where they are--and where they will not arrive--unless they wake up and start doing what it takes to capitalize on this fucking opportunity they have that most teams in the league would give their left nut to have. One/done is what this team is spec'd to achieve--and when you have the luxury of the best QB probably EVER--right in the peak of his prime--that's pathetic...

The bottom line is these people are WAY too comfortable in their roles. Murphy is worthless...and McCarthy, by virtue of his retention of Capers and Crosby among others with inadequate performance--obviously feels no pressure from TT to make any changes and step up his game... When was the last time you remember seeing anything in the way of a bold move coming out of this team? Don't rock the boat-- Here Donald--you little star-dancer--take $2.6M to stand on the sidelines so we don't have to face the fallout of what some would consider to be a tough decision... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As a consultant coming in to advise the board--I'd recommend that a shakeup be affected there in some manner to wake these people up and set them more on the edge. Comfort brings complacency--and this leadership team is leaving way too much on the table to expect this team moving forward to be anything special.

One more year for McCarthy. Anything less than the NFC Championship game--and his Shrek ass is down the road.

First of all I want to correct a misunderstanding. My "nickels and dimes" comment isn't meant to imply that each percentage point isn't important; obviously that's the delicate nature of every GM's job. I was trying to suggest that the six points you suggested were very secondary to the overall strategic posture of TT, in terms of remaining merely competitive for a longer period of time vs. putting forth a monster squad for one big year. Poor wording on my part.

I get the feeling you advocate making a big push now, while Rodgers and Matthews are still in their prime. Obviously it's too late to stack the chips up for 2013, but do you think 2014 is the year? Or 2015? You see, realistically it can't be more than one (or possibly two) years. If TT goes out and gets all those missing pieces, unless they fall to us in the draft, he's going to have to PAY for them, and that means his long term plans for re-signing Jones, Nelson and Cobb, etc. will be jeopardized. One way or another the future will be compromised.

No, Duck... This was the year--and as I've been ranting--now it's too late. As I've said--next year at this time there remains no further margin in waiting to extend Rodgers--so the $$$ just plain won't be there. This was their year to load the boat--and it should have started the day after the SF loss... THEY'RE ONLY TWO FUCKING PLAYERS AWAY! Want to know what the 2013-14 Packers will look like, Duck? Meet the new boss--same as the old boss...

You make good points about protecting your key assets. I think Nick Perry was a legitimate attempt to take pressure off of Matthews but I don't understand why we're wasting time with Marshall Newhouse. LT should be an absolute priority to protect our #1 asset, the best QB in the game.

I also think you have a point about complacency in Green Bay. The team showed me some hunger in 2010 but since then it's evaporated. Maybe the bitch-slapping by the Niners will wake some people up. I hope so. This team always seems to do better with a chip on its shoulder.

I'd also put the NFC Championship game as the benchmark for this team. Anything less would be underachieving. Anything more would be gravy.

Whatever we wish for as fans, however, is a moot point. Barring some catastrophic collapse and missing the playoffs, for example, this team is NOT going to rock the boat right now. TT and MM are here for an indefinite period of time whether you like it or not.

milani wrote:Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

And no one does this better than him. All I can say is that TT has learned from his blunders of 2005. I just wish he would have been as bold to eke out a few of those $ for Rivera and Wahle. I'm with you all the way now, TT.

IN TT WE TRUST

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:...reportedly $13.2M/season or $825,000/game. That's 30% more than anyone has ever been paid in the history of the GB Packer organization... With Jones, Finley, Raji, Shields and Burnett all entering their contract seasons, TT moves to off-the-grid idiot if he extends Rodgers before next year at this time... Close to 1/3 of the cap would be tied up in just two fucking players... Game over.

I'd like more perspective on that. I'd bet that the QB and the #1 defensive player on most teams would take up anywhere from 25-35% of their cap space. I could be wrong... but I'd like a baseline for comparison.

Then you'd be wrong. The only teams that would even come remotely close are the Ravens (Flacco/Suggs) and the moron Jerry Jones in Dallas (Romo/Ware)

Bummer. All I can say is that I hope TT continues to get young talent at a cheap price. If he does, we might be able to absorb this hit. If not, we are indeed in trouble.

See? Now we come full circle--finding young developing talent at a cheap price does not properly leverage the window and investment you've made in the best QB that has come along in the league for maybe ever... It appears as though TT is taking the fact that he has had two of the best QB's in the history of the league back-to-back for granted. Many franchises go two decades between truly elite QB's with the potential to go all the way...and GB might be the next one...

You've already suggested that the Packers would be wise not to restructure Rodgers' contract any sooner than they need to... and I agree with you. However, other than that, what the heck can TT do right now? Not signing Matthews and/or Rodgers is NOT an option.

I suppose TT could decide one year that this is the year to go for it, mortgage the future, go crazy in free agent signings, and stack all of his chips on that one year. That was more or less what the Vikings did in 2009. The problem with that, obviously, is that the bill comes due in the next couple of years and you have to do a gut. And if you DON'T bring home the title that year, you've fucked yourself in the future for that one big shot. (In many ways it's like gambling on in vitro fertilization. You pay the doctor $20K and hope you get a kid. If that doesn't work, the money is gone and you're still childless.)

The path TT seems to have chosen is to take care of his core players and hope he can surround them with sufficient talent with the remainder of his resources. I like this plan better but of course the downside is that you get several years of being competitive but may never have enough for that one big year to get you to the top.

It's quite a dilemma, really. You go one way and you maximize your chances for one year at the expense of several bad ones, or you go the other way and you remain close-but-no-cigar for an indefinite period of years.

What the heck do you think TT should do right now, HD?

It's really too late to gain a number of significant cap efficiencies/Free agents now, Duck... For example--they've already paid Finley a $3M roster bonus a couple of weeks ago. That goes right on this years cap...and most capable free agents have already found a home. They should have secured a solid LT somewhere and a solid D lineman. About all they can do now is...

1) Cut Mason Crosby. ($3.5M saved)

2) Negotiate paycut/release for Kuhn. ($1.5M-$3M saved)

2) Sign Finley to long-term deal. (optimum timing for this has passed-but Finley's cap number could still be decreased by $2-4M...

3) Do NOT sign Rodgers to extension until after next season.

5) Sign James Jones to extension

6) Sign Raji to an extension

Boom--they're capped out. Sign Rodgers now and you can kiss the ass of James Jones, Raji and probably Finley goodbye... Next year they have similar issues with Jordy Nelson, Desmond Bishop, Bulaga and fucking Randall Cobb all coming due...

This was their year to load the boat and make the run, Duck--because they will have no choice but to extend Rodgers after this next season and preclude the possibility financially...

Now the paint-thinner brigade starts to gain the perspective on why it was so fucking criminally irresponsible for TT to offer $13 fucking million/year to Greg Jennings when he did--because on the back end--you're going to lose an additional one of these other younger playmakers because of it... You see Duck--I've never actually studied it fortunately--but never getting laid and perpetually shielding yourself from the sun makes you dull, pasty, stupid and senseless...Just ask Ted.

Agreed with your six points, HD. However, they are nickels and dimes in the bigger picture.

My real question is a much broader one. As I tied to outline previously, what kind of a strategy do you think should TT pursue, in terms of configuring the level of the Packers' competitiveness: should he try to optimize a given year with a concerted push for another Lombardi, or spread things out and remain competitive (although not necessarily the favorite) for a longer period of time?

It seems to me like TT is playing for the latter, and I tilt towards that strategy because injuries are the great (and random) equalizer, and once you get into the postseason tournament you never know what is going to happen. However, there are some merits to stacking the chips up when you know you have the best shot, and I was just wondering what you thought of these two strategies.

Timing/circumstances dictate your strategy--just as they always do... That's what I've been harping on as TT's greatest deficiency. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of product life cycle--and how your stategy for player acquisition should correspondingly evolve and be centered on leveraging the greatest value out of your primary assets once you reach the point of such disparity in the value of your player assets. Once you have 1/3 of your cap tied up in two players, for example--your greatest efficiency is gained through building your team around them. That means it should have been a fucking PRIORITY to do something at LT, for example--or do you suppose that TT believes Marshall Newhouse is going to magically fucking develop into a player? We don't have the luxury of time in wasting the reps of a $22M/yr asset while some newly-minted project may/may not develop into a reliable protector of that asset's blindside. Rogers could be sliding down the backside by then--or in a wheelchair for that matter. Same thing with Matthews. He throws away Jenkins for next to nothing and now three seasons later STILL has no one who can pull the 2nd and even 3rd man off Matthews. TT is hardwired that way--his greatest pride is taking these late round scrubs and trying to make them into something. That's a great project. Save it for the next fucking birdhouse in woodshop class, asshole...

The core has been built--the urgency to plug in the last remaining pieces should be NOW and put that warship out to sea to blow some holes in shit and litter the bottom of the pond with other team's dreams WHILE THE GUNS (Rodgers/Matthews) still pack some punch, eh?

Finally--your *nickles/dimes* comment reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of how precious those cap dollars are for this team right now and into the future. The Cap was $123M last season... What I outlined for moves--even now, after it's too late to have really made some impact--is about $8M or 6.5% of the cap. That's huge--for it means retaining one additional playmaker with recycled money that wasn't really carrying any water before. In fairness, he did pull a straight paycut out of Hawk. That should have been just the beginning and not the end... What's frustrating is that this team is just a half step from going over the top--but those in command lack the perspective to see where they are--and where they will not arrive--unless they wake up and start doing what it takes to capitalize on this fucking opportunity they have that most teams in the league would give their left nut to have. One/done is what this team is spec'd to achieve--and when you have the luxury of the best QB probably EVER--right in the peak of his prime--that's pathetic...

The bottom line is these people are WAY too comfortable in their roles. Murphy is worthless...and McCarthy, by virtue of his retention of Capers and Crosby among others with inadequate performance--obviously feels no pressure from TT to make any changes and step up his game... When was the last time you remember seeing anything in the way of a bold move coming out of this team? Don't rock the boat-- Here Donald--you little star-dancer--take $2.6M to stand on the sidelines so we don't have to face the fallout of what some would consider to be a tough decision... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As a consultant coming in to advise the board--I'd recommend that a shakeup be affected there in some manner to wake these people up and set them more on the edge. Comfort brings complacency--and this leadership team is leaving way too much on the table to expect this team moving forward to be anything special.

One more year for McCarthy. Anything less than the NFC Championship game--and his Shrek ass is down the road.