Tough to get behind this move

So they let Welker go to the Broncos for $6M per year, when they themselves offered him $5 per? Don't really get the thinking. Trying to save a million or two bucks? There's got to be more to it that we're just not aware of, and good luck thinking that whatever was going on behind the scenes will ever be accurately revealed. I'll reserve judgment on this until I see the other shoe drop. Who are they gonig to sign? Who are they going to get to replace Wes?

By the way Wes. Thank you for your service and good luck. Except for a couple of key drops, always enjoyed watching you play... especially when you took monster hits and then got up like you didn't even feel it.

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This was all that Manning needed to add.

So they let Welker go to the Broncos for $6M
per year, when they themselves offered him $5 per? Don't really get
the thinking. Trying to save a million or two bucks? There's got to be
more to it that we're just not aware of, and good luck thinking that
whatever was going on behind the scenes will ever be accurately
revealed. I'll reserve judgment on this until I see the other shoe
drop. Who are they gonig to sign? Who are they going to get to replace
Wes?

Great Quotes in Patriots History

"He
chose money over championships, and that's the way it goes sometimes."

Wes Welker on Asante Samuel
6/27/08
The day I stopped liking him.

LRJets wrote:Was going to , and still might post this on the Jets board, (we need some pleasure).
The Patriots did it again! Brady restructures his contract to clear cap space, (and to his benefit as his guaranteed monies about doubled), the Patriots actually let Welker go.
Welker averaged 116 receptions for 6 years as a Pat! How do you let him go for $2 million?
Oh, it's the Patriot Way.
I am thrilled he is going to be a target for Peyton and I agree with Stephen A. Smith, the Patriots made a moral mistake.

As a Jet fan, just curious as to why you would be "thrilled" that Wes is going to be a target for Peyton? Its one less target for Brady, who is your dvision rival - I get that. But is there any other reason? Would you be just as "thrilled" if he were a target, oh, lets say for Alex Smith in K.C.?

And it also seems you threw in some kind of negative knock on what you think you know as "The Patriot Way"? I'm sure there are a whole bunch of teams out there who would like to incorporate whatever is meant by "The Patriot Way" if it meant they too could win 12+ games and be in the playoffs year after year.
As I said, I think there was something going on other than just not wanting to pay the extra $2 million that Denver did. There's more to it. I just don't know what it is, and Coach Belichick hasn't checked in with me yet today, so I can't tell you.
I'm sure Brady is pissed, no doubt. And yes, his contract gives him more guaranteed money, but did he or did he not sign for a below the market amount overall? Of course he did. To me, that means both that he is smart, AND he is a team guy. He's smart because the guarantee gives him some nice security no matter what may happen such as injury. He's also a team guy for taking a below the market amount so that team can use the money where its needed, like on defense. No one in the locker room should take it the wrong way and think that the organization will come to them and say "Brady took less, so you have to take less too." Thats simply not going to happen and is not relevant whatsoever. Brady is a special case, and what he did will not affect someone else's contract negotiations in the slightest. Wilfork got his money. Mayo got his money. Gronk got his money. Hernandez got his money. When they have an asset they value, they pay him. When they want to go in a different direction, they do. Its a business, remember? And I'm not saying they get it right every time. They don't. But with 12+ wins and in the playoffs every year, I'll take it. Its funny, the Pats made it to the Final 4 last year, and to the Final 2 the year before, yet both seasons are generally considered "failures", and I basically agree with that. Yes, as Pats fans we definitely are truly spoiled.

Great Quotes in Patriots History

"He chose money over championships, and that's the way it goes sometimes."

Wes Welker on Asante Samuel
6/27/08
The day I stopped liking him.[/quote]

Ya, well forget about Welker and his droppies. The day I stopped likiing Assante Samuel is the day he let a sure interception thrown right to him by Eli Manning that I in my middle age would have had no trouble hanging on to, go right between his hands, and with that one single screw up, allow the New York Football Giants to win the Superbowl, and thus change history by squandering the opportunity for the 2007-08 New England Patriots to be the only team in NFL history to go 19-0 and be universally hailed as The Greatest Team Of All Time. Thanks Assante.

At first I thought it was on Brady. He was willing to clear cap space as you know, he didn't get hurt financially, but it was reported he said he was lied to.
I wrote that post in Welker's behalf, he will do well financially, how many get a chance to be the target of Brady and Peyton?

I feel it was wrong to just let a guy who caught 240 passes in the last 2 seasons walk. You as a Pats fan should be concerned with the team as a whole. Being on the outside, I just feel Welker wasn't treated fairly.
Just my .02.

guppy wrote:Great Quotes in Patriots History

"He chose money over championships, and that's the way it goes sometimes."

Wes Welker on Asante Samuel
6/27/08
The day I stopped liking him.

Ya, well forget about Welker and his droppies. The day I stopped likiing Assante Samuel is the day he let a sure interception thrown right to him by Eli Manning that I in my middle age would have had no trouble hanging on to, go right between his hands, and with that one single screw up, allow the New York Football Giants to win the Superbowl, and thus change history by squandering the opportunity for the 2007-08 New England Patriots to be the only team in NFL history to go 19-0 and be universally hailed as The Greatest Team Of All Time. Thanks Assante.[/quote]

No, it was Welker I stopped liking. Mouthy punk. And you are kidding about Samuel right? Or at least about being able to catch a football 10 feet off the ground?

George1963 wrote:

guppy wrote:Great Quotes in Patriots History

"He chose money over championships, and that's the way it goes sometimes."

Wes Welker on Asante Samuel
6/27/08
The day I stopped liking him.

Ya, well forget about Welker and his droppies. The day I stopped likiing Assante Samuel is the day he let a sure interception thrown right to him by Eli Manning that I in my middle age would have had no trouble hanging on to, go right between his hands, and with that one single screw up, allow the New York Football Giants to win the Superbowl, and thus change history by squandering the opportunity for the 2007-08 New England Patriots to be the only team in NFL history to go 19-0 and be universally hailed as The Greatest Team Of All Time. Thanks Assante.

No, it was Welker I stopped liking. Mouthy punk. And you are kidding about Samuel right? Or at least about being able to catch a football 10 feet off the ground?[/quote]

You can't be serious. The interception was a lay up. Absolute lay up. He simply blew it, and in a single play, turned 19-0 into 18-1.

Also, since I'm a little fuzzy on your definition of a "mouthy punk", can you provide another example of someone, not a NE Patriot, who you would put in the same category as being a "mouthy punk"?

No, it was Welker I stopped liking.
Mouthy punk. And you are kidding about Samuel right? Or at least about
being able to catch a football 10 feet off the ground?[/quote]

You
can't be serious. The interception was a lay up. Absolute lay up. He
simply blew it, and in a single play, turned 19-0 into 18-1.

Also,
since I'm a little fuzzy on your definition of a "mouthy punk", can you
provide another example of someone, not a NE Patriot, who you would put
in the same category as being a "mouthy punk"?

A non-Patriot that's a mouthy punk? OK. How about Denver Bronco Wes Welker saying he signed with the team because he "wants to win"? Nah. You'll probably spin that into a compliment to the Patriots.
I'll get back to that.

Lay up?

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10 feet off the ground, he barely got his fingertips on it, and he came down out of bounds anyway.
Saying a DB not catching an uncatchable ball cost them the game is ignoring the obvious fact that the "greatest offense the world has ever seen" only managed 14 points against a team they put up 38 against a month earlier. Hell, it's not like it was even the winning touchdown. It was second down with 1:20 to go. What about the poor defensive play on the next play?
Oh wait! There's a non-Patriot mouthy punk right there.
How about NBC analyst Rodney Harrison saying before the second Patriots Super Bowl failure that David Tyree was really Samuels man?
Nah. That one probably wouldn't work for you either.
How about Terrel Suggs saying 31 teams hate the Patriots?
That they're arrogant pr#cks from the coach on down?
LT saying they have no class and probably get that from their coach?
James Harrison saying cheaters never win?
Antonio Cromartie saying Brady's an asshole?
Bart Scott saying the Patriots have been a different team in the playoffs since 2007?
Brendon Ayanbadejo saying he had no respect for their "gimmick" offense?
Shannon Sharpe Saying Bill Belechick makes it very easy to root against the Patriots?
I'm sure those would qualify in your eyes.

George1963 wrote:No, it was Welker I stopped liking.
Mouthy punk. And you are kidding about Samuel right? Or at least about
being able to catch a football 10 feet off the ground?

You
can't be serious. The interception was a lay up. Absolute lay up. He
simply blew it, and in a single play, turned 19-0 into 18-1.

Also,
since I'm a little fuzzy on your definition of a "mouthy punk", can you
provide another example of someone, not a NE Patriot, who you would put
in the same category as being a "mouthy punk"?

A non-Patriot that's a mouthy punk? OK. How about Denver Bronco Wes Welker saying he signed with the team because he "wants to win"? Nah. You'll probably spin that into a compliment to the Patriots.
I'll get back to that.





Lay up?


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10 feet off the ground, he barely got his fingertips on it, and he came down out of bounds anyway.
Saying a DB not catching an uncatchable ball cost them the game is ignoring the obvious fact that the "greatest offense the world has ever seen" only managed 14 points against a team they put up 38 against a month earlier. Hell, it's not like it was even the winning touchdown. It was second down with 1:20 to go. What about the poor defensive play on the next play?
Oh wait! There's a non-Patriot mouthy punk right there.
How about NBC analyst Rodney Harrison saying before the second Patriots Super Bowl failure that David Tyree was really Samuels man?
Nah. That one probably wouldn't work for you either.
How about Terrel Suggs saying 31 teams hate the Patriots?
That they're arrogant pr#cks from the coach on down?
LT saying they have no class and probably get that from their coach?
James Harrison saying cheaters never win?
Antonio Cromartie saying Brady's an asshole?
Bart Scott saying the Patriots have been a different team in the playoffs since 2007?


Brendon Ayanbadejo saying he had no respect for their "gimmick" offense?
Shannon Sharpe Saying Bill Belechick makes it very easy to root against the Patriots?
I'm sure those would qualify in your eyes.

From Asante's reaction with his hands on his helmut, it looks like HE knows he should have had it. An athlete doesn't make that gesture about himself with both hands on his head unless he himself thinks he blew it. We see it in all sports, not just football. He should have had it. Fact remains, it was one play that would have sealed the game and a 19-0 record. If the int is made, there is no "poor next play" on defense that we are talking about. Its game over. In the end, its not a big point of discussion anyway. Just supposed to be a fun sports topic. Many, many games turn on one play that can be pointed to that changed an outcome. Its just part of sports talk.

The point is, YOU will turn anything, even the most trivial and mundane fact or statement from anyone with even the remotest connection to the Patriots into a full blown condemnation of the Patriots organization, Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, Gillette Stadium, the Patriot cheerleaders, the parking lot attendants, the janitors, and every single fan in Patriots Nation. I'm sure I left some others out. But all that is not a surprise. Its all transparent and obvious, and to be expected from you, so in the end, it bothers me not, because I assign no useful value to your abundant reservoir of bias.

Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie? LMAO! Those are your examples of intelligent sources? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Wow. Hold on. Its taking me a few minutes to catch my breath. Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.

"Gimmick" offense? LOL. Its only "gimmick" when Tom Brady runs it, right? Its certainly not "gimmick" when Peyton Manning runs it. Oh, never. Heaven forbid. And its not "gimmick" when we start to see a bunch of other teams attempt to copy it. Patriots = "gimmick". Everyone else = "smart, innovative play calling". I got all that about right? Thought so. LOL. Another brilliant display of intelligence, this time by B. Ayanbadejo, who took back the remark anyway. LOL.

Bart Scott taking about the playoffs? Good one. What familiarity does Bart Can't Frickin Wait Scott have with the playoffs? What is his extensive personal playoff experience and success that makes him the last word on the subject? LOL. Personally, when I think of playoffs, Bart Scott is not the first guy that comes to mind.

Bill Belichick? Different story. Hard personality to like. Stubborn. Doesn't smile a lot. Hate him all you want. Everyone gets that. Still among the greatest coaches of all time though. Still going to the HOF. Can't change that fact. Hated by everyone outside of NE? I don't know. Perhaps ask Ed Reed:
"At the Super Bowl, I was asked if I would play for Coach Belichick and my answer was: ‘What player wouldn’t play for Coach Belichick?’ He is a good football coach, has a great mind for football. I met Coach Belichick at a Pro Bowl. He is a great guy, great competitor and seems to understand his players. I was just asked the question at the time [but] I am a Raven, plan on being a Raven. I couldn’t see myself anywhere else, but if it happens, I am a football player, I can adapt to any situation."

Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie? LMAO! Those are your examples of intelligent sources? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Wow. Hold on. Its taking me a few minutes to catch my breath. Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.
Neither might not explain Keynsian economics, but speaking about Cromartie, he had a surprisingly good year as probably one of the rare bright spots for the Jets. He did say he's the second best reciver on the Jets, but that's a remark that should never have been made, especially to risk internal strife.
But...he did make the Pro Bowl.

Suggs? Wasn't he out for some games? He is a respected opponent to all, and some of these players weren't signed for their etiquette.
Not all players act like Bart Starr or Walter Payton did. So you watch your words Gup!

LRJets wrote:Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie? LMAO! Those are your examples of intelligent sources? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Wow. Hold on. Its taking me a few minutes to catch my breath. Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.
Neither might not explain Keynsian economics, but speaking about Cromartie, he had a surprisingly good year as probably one of the rare bright spots for the Jets. He did say he's the second best reciver on the Jets, but that's a remark that should never have been made, especially to risk internal strife.
But...he did make the Pro Bowl.

Suggs? Wasn't he out for some games? He is a respected opponent to all, and some of these players weren't signed for their etiquette.
Not all players act like Bart Starr or Walter Payton did. So you watch your words Gup!

Sure LR, I'll watch my words., but I have a few more.

I'll ask you then. In certain circles, Wes Welker is supposedly a "mouthy punk". Using that standard as a baseline, what does that make Antonio Cromartie by comparison? Just wondering. Because I didn't initially bring up Cromartie's name. Cromartie's "asshole" comment about Tom Brady was cited by another poster, and apparently actually relied on to support a certain viewpoint (Patriots are arrogant, hated, blah, blah, blah). The argument being put forth from the poster is apparently -- and I'm paraphrasing -- "Well, if Cromartie said it, then there must be something to it and we should give it all due consideration."

So where does this leave us? Lets summarize. Wes Welker, through his words and conduct, is a "mouthy punk"; however, Antonio Cromartie's anti-Brady profanities have merit. Get it? That's the argument! It really is. Care to comment? Never mind, I'll give you my response: Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to consider that as a valid argument with a legitimate foudation, worthy of serious consideration? Sorry. Aint happening Bro. If there is such a thing as football fan malpractice, the "Welker = mouthy punk; but lets take seriously Cromartie's anti Brady profanity" argument is the best example of it I've ever seen. However, as I've said elsewhere, such lack of fair-mindedness and evenhandedness is not a surprise. I pay it little mind, considering the source, and his well-established, self-acknowledged ("God, I despise that team.") agenda.

Now to Suggs. Suggs was cited for his "31 other teams hate the Patriots" garbage spewed out -- on the heels of winning a SuperBowl of all things! He thus showed zero class as a champion, and created a story that put the Patriots in the media, when, by rights, it is the Ravens and their championship that should be his personal focus as well as the media. You just won a Superbowl dude. You were an underdog in all three playoff games you played, yet you won them all. What a great accomplishment. All I can say is the Pats must really be taking up a lot of space in your head, which is very funny, frankly.

To review, Suggs' words were cited by a poster as one of his sources for a particular viewpoint. However, the poster citig Suggs also conveniently neglected to cite Suggs' own teammate who could be found as close as being in the same defensive huddle with him -- Ed Reed. Reed's comments as regards to the NE Patriots and Coach Belichick were 180 degrees opposite of Suggs', were they not? So we actually didin't have to go too far to see that Suggs is full of crap. We didn't have to poll 31 other teams. We found the direct opposite opinion right in Suggs' own huddle. LOL Yet those comments were never mentioned. Surprising? No. Expected? Yes. Amusing? Yes.

We also heard very complimentary comments from Suggs' own head coach John Harbaugh in his post game comments when he spoke about what Belichick said to him at mid-field after the Ravens just defeated the Patriots in the AFCC game. Another opposing opinion right in Suggs' own organization. If you watched ESPN stories on Suggs' comments you could see people were basically rolling their eyes at what he said. You see what I'm getting at here? Suggs' inflammatory words were cited. Reed's and Harbaugh's complimentary ones were not. LOL. Truly laughable. Do the words "hypocrite" or "agenda" come to mind?

guppy wrote:A non-Patriot that's a mouthy punk? OK. How about Denver Bronco Wes Welker saying he signed with the team because he "wants to win"? Nah. You'll probably spin that into a compliment to the Patriots.




Antonio Cromartie saying Brady's an asshole?


Question:
For one NFL player to call another an "asshole", does that make him a "mouthy punk" in your view? We already know that if a player talks about contract negotiations and offers the opinion that some other player chose money over winning, that makes him a "mouthy punk". But how about taking it up another level, or I should say down another level to the gutter, and just making profane personal attacks, like calling someone an "asshole"? Is that person a "mouthy punk"?
Remember now, before you answer; the person who used the derogatory term "asshole", and then later even stood by his words, is NOT a New England Patriot. He actually wears a different uniform. Mouthy punk? Yes or no?

Um, yes. That was kinda the point. I thought the only mouthy punks you would recognize as such would be the ones who said negative things about the most perfect organization in the history of sports. Even if they were true.
Hey, you seem to put a lot of weight in what a guy has accomplished in his career as to whether he has a right to express his opinion or whether that opinion has any credence. What had Wes Welker accomplished by the summer of 2008 to say a freakin' word about an all pro with two rings?

guppy wrote:

LRJets wrote:Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie? LMAO! Those are your examples of intelligent sources? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Wow. Hold on. Its taking me a few minutes to catch my breath. Terrell Suggs and Antonio Cromartie!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.
Neither might not explain Keynsian economics, but speaking about Cromartie, he had a surprisingly good year as probably one of the rare bright spots for the Jets. He did say he's the second best reciver on the Jets, but that's a remark that should never have been made, especially to risk internal strife.
But...he did make the Pro Bowl.

Suggs? Wasn't he out for some games? He is a respected opponent to all, and some of these players weren't signed for their etiquette.
Not all players act like Bart Starr or Walter Payton did. So you watch your words Gup!

Sure LR, I'll watch my words., but I have a few more.

I'll ask you then. In certain circles, Wes Welker is supposedly a "mouthy punk". Using that standard as a baseline, what does that make Antonio Cromartie by comparison? Just wondering. Because I didn't initially bring up Cromartie's name. Cromartie's "asshole" comment about Tom Brady was cited by another poster, and apparently actually relied on to support a certain viewpoint (Patriots are arrogant, hated, blah, blah, blah). The argument being put forth from the poster is apparently -- and I'm paraphrasing -- "Well, if Cromartie said it, then there must be something to it and we should give it all due consideration."

So where does this leave us? Lets summarize. Wes Welker, through his words and conduct, is a "mouthy punk"; however, Antonio Cromartie's anti-Brady profanities have merit. Get it? That's the argument! It really is. Care to comment? Never mind, I'll give you my response: Are you kidding me? I'm supposed to consider that as a valid argument with a legitimate foudation, worthy of serious consideration? Sorry. Aint happening Bro. If there is such a thing as football fan malpractice, the "Welker = mouthy punk; but lets take seriously Cromartie's anti Brady profanity" argument is the best example of it I've ever seen. However, as I've said elsewhere, such lack of fair-mindedness and evenhandedness is not a surprise. I pay it little mind, considering the source, and his well-established, self-acknowledged ("God, I despise that team.") agenda.

Now to Suggs. Suggs was cited for his "31 other teams hate the Patriots" garbage spewed out -- on the heels of winning a SuperBowl of all things! He thus showed zero class as a champion, and created a story that put the Patriots in the media, when, by rights, it is the Ravens and their championship that should be his personal focus as well as the media. You just won a Superbowl dude. You were an underdog in all three playoff games you played, yet you won them all. What a great accomplishment. All I can say is the Pats must really be taking up a lot of space in your head, which is very funny, frankly.

To review, Suggs' words were cited by a poster as one of his sources for a particular viewpoint. However, the poster citig Suggs also conveniently neglected to cite Suggs' own teammate who could be found as close as being in the same defensive huddle with him -- Ed Reed. Reed's comments as regards to the NE Patriots and Coach Belichick were 180 degrees opposite of Suggs', were they not? So we actually didin't have to go too far to see that Suggs is full of crap. We didn't have to poll 31 other teams. We found the direct opposite opinion right in Suggs' own huddle. LOL Yet those comments were never mentioned. Surprising? No. Expected? Yes. Amusing? Yes.

We also heard very complimentary comments from Suggs' own head coach John Harbaugh in his post game comments when he spoke about what Belichick said to him at mid-field after the Ravens just defeated the Patriots in the AFCC game. Another opposing opinion right in Suggs' own organization. If you watched ESPN stories on Suggs' comments you could see people were basically rolling their eyes at what he said. You see what I'm getting at here? Suggs' inflammatory words were cited. Reed's and Harbaugh's complimentary ones were not. LOL. Truly laughable. Do the words "hypocrite" or "agenda" come to mind?

They pop right to my mind.
Wes Welker is a mouthy punk. Bill Belicheck has punished him for it in the past. I don't have tape on it, but I strongly suspect that his mouthy punkishness, in the media and via social media, over the last year and a half of his contract crap had a great deal to do with little Bill low balling him. I think there's another factor involved, but that's just based on watching how the guy has operated since the first time he was ever in charge of anything

George1963 wrote:

guppy wrote:A non-Patriot that's a mouthy punk? OK. How about Denver Bronco Wes Welker saying he signed with the team because he "wants to win"? Nah. You'll probably spin that into a compliment to the Patriots.




Antonio Cromartie saying Brady's an asshole?


Question:
For one NFL player to call another an "asshole", does that make him a "mouthy punk" in your view? We already know that if a player talks about contract negotiations and offers the opinion that some other player chose money over winning, that makes him a "mouthy punk". But how about taking it up another level, or I should say down another level to the gutter, and just making profane personal attacks, like calling someone an "asshole"? Is that person a "mouthy punk"?
Remember now, before you answer; the person who used the derogatory term "asshole", and then later even stood by his words, is NOT a New England Patriot. He actually wears a different uniform. Mouthy punk? Yes or no?

Um, yes. That was kinda the point. I thought the only mouthy punks you would recognize as such would be the ones who said negative things about the most perfect organization in the history of sports. Even if they were true.
Hey, you seem to put a lot of weight in what a guy has accomplished in his career as to whether he has a right to express his opinion or whether that opinion has any credence. What had Wes Welker accomplished by the summer of 2008 to say a freakin' word about an all pro with two rings?

Um, my point was I thought the only mouthy punks you would recognize as such would be the ones that wear Patriots uniforms. Even if they weren't true. (I still believe that by the way.)

Never said or even hinted that I root for the most perfect organization in the history of sports. There is plenty of criticism to throw at them. Many of their own fans do on a daily basis. You just have to listen to Boston sports radio to hear it all the time. You think letting Welker go was popular here? Please. Some Pats fans are already talking about the "downfall of Bill Belichick", and on and on. If you are honest, you will acknowledge that I criticize them regularly too. Do you recall that I agreed that Brady should be fined for his slide-kick to Ed Reed? It was a complete boneheaded move, and I never defended it. I actually found it shocking and truly disappointing coming from a player of his caliber. Also I thought he absolutely blew the game at the end of the first hafl with absolutely horrible clock management so as to not even get a TD opportunity, and they had to settle for a FG to close out the half? Just horrible play. Was my criticism not harsh enough for you? Or do you even remember it?

Most perfect organization? Pffft. My thing is pretty simple actually. People can hate on whoever they want and on whatever team they want, and I have no problem with that. Nor should I. All I ask for is be fair and be evenhanded. Thats all.

Welker talking about an All Pro with two rings in 2008? Samuel was an all pro in 2007. Welker was not in 2007, but was in '08, '09, '10, '11 and '12, with two of those five being First Team All Pro. They are both the same age, and of the present day Welker has been named to 5 Pro Bowls. Samuel to only 4. I do like your reference to Samuel's two rings ('03 and '04 - his first two year in the league). Asante had the good fortune to be a Patriot in the heyday of Brady, Dillon, Harrison, Vrable, McGuinest, Bruschi, et al. Was it Welker's fault that he was stuck in Miami for those years? It looks to me just by the stats that by the time each their career are over, each player's best accomplishments will be in a Patriots uniform. But we'll see I guess.

Anyway, the point that started all this is, you think Welker spoke out of line about Samuel leaving NE and getting a new contract with the Eagles after '07, and the words he said made him a mouthy punk in your eyes. Fine. That's your opinion. We'll just disagree on what it takes to qualify as a mouthy punk. I'm looking for something more vile, more nasty, more mean-spirited from the player before branding him as such. You, on the other hand, don't cut a guy much slack. What I, and others, might find mildly off color or controversial and are willing to look past, you, conversely, are greatly offended by, and quick to go all negative on the guy, completely change your opinion, and "stop likeing" him. We have different levels of tolerance, thats all. Not a big deal.

They pop right to my mind.
Wes Welker is a mouthy punk. Bill Belicheck has punished him for it in the past. I don't have tape on it, but I strongly suspect that his mouthy punkishness, in the media and via social media, over the last year and a half of his contract crap had a great deal to do with little Bill low balling him. I think there's another factor involved, but that's just based on watching how the guy has operated since the first time he was ever in charge of anything
[/quote]

Now I am confused. So you think Bill Belichick punishing Wes Welker for his little comedy routine about Rex Ryan's feet (sitting him out the 1st Quarter of the Pats-Jets playoff game) was the appropriate and ballsy thing to do, even though unpopular? Rex Ryan thought so. And that Welker and Belichick have been on somewhat of a collision course ever since? Interesting. There was also that joke Welker said about "its good to stick it in Bill's face sometimes", smiling. There's probably something to your theory. I do believe there is something going on with Welker and Belichick that the public doesn't know. I do know the fans loved Welker. And now the Broncos fans love him.

So I take it you think Bill Belichick is a pretty good Head Coach as far as maintaining a certain discipline and a expecting a certain code of conduct from his players as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable?

LRJets wrote:I was just going to write about the incident, you know in summer of 2011, when Frank and a few others could not resist on a daily basis the "Feet incident". Frank was posting literally link after link and cartoons of Rex and his wife.
He's allowed to be obnoxious.
1. He's a fan.
2. He's a Pats fan.
Welker broke the unwritten law of public commenting on an incident within the "NFL family". Yes he did apologize. Forced or voluntarily? Who knows?
I do know Skip Bayless repeatedly said this week BB held it against Welker for his drops in the SB as fodder for not re-signing him. In fairness, it is one man's (Bayless') opinion. Stephen A. came back citing Welker's stats which were glowing over 6 years as a Patriot.
Makes one wonder.

It does make one wonder. All in all, it would seem that Bill Belichick does not allow or tolerate for long someone straying too far off the path in terms of conduct, no matter how glowing his stats are, or how popular the player is with the fans. The sign of a head coach definitely in charge. No chance of the inmates running the asylum in Foxboro is there? Rex would do well to take note.

So
I take it you think Bill Belichick is a pretty good Head Coach as far
as maintaining a certain discipline and a expecting a certain code of
conduct from his players as to what is acceptable and what is not
acceptable?

I think he's like everybody else. How much he'll put up with depends on how much is in it for him.
If Jeff Tarpinian gave him any lip he'd cut him. If Tom Brady lit his cat on fire he'd thank him.

LRJets wrote:It does make one wonder. All in all, it would seem that Bill Belichick does not allow or tolerate for long someone straying too far off the path in terms of conduct, no matter how glowing his stats are, or how popular the player is with the fans. The sign of a head coach definitely in charge. No chance of the inmates running the asylum in Foxboro is there? Rex would do well to take note.
I could not agree more.
I read idiot Florio's PFT site daily. No matter what the issue is re:the Jets, fans from many teams come there to talk trash.
Know what?
Nobody is more upset with the poorly run administration of the Jets in 2012 than Jets fans!
Who gets a ballyhooed player,(Tebow) and extends the present QB's contract (Sanchez)when evidently they were not satisfied with the latter's performance?
Who doesn't give the ballyhooed player a chance?
When Sanchez completely crashed, it seems the front office, rather than admit their mistake, to avoid embarrassment yet bring out their ignorance, still kept Sanchez as starter.
Belichick...
Why do you think for years Jets Nation was upset with Belichick and the way he broke his 24 hour hour tenure as Jets coach?
Answer: It lasted 24 hours.
Knocks on Belichick have never been for his on field coaching. It's his demeanor, his inability to smile, his co-creating of the "Patriots Way".
Tossed Deion Branch like a disposable razor blade, then took him back. The unwillingness to really negotiate with a veteran player when the contract is up.
Everyone in Pats fandom could recognize how Welker played "good soldier" when he was vying for a long term contract for over two years. Every year in a football player's career is vital. To play around with that is not right.
'Nuff said.
For now.

The player played "good soldier" while he was looking for a long term contract. But while doing so, he still collected $9 Million a year. He wasn't exactly getting abused. One year later the market set his value at $6 Mill a year. The Pats offer $5 PLUS INCENTIVES. So he could have collected around $6 M if he met the incentives. He just decided it was time for a change and some new scenery. Its a business. When you say "unwillingness to negotiate with a veteran player when his contract is up", its sounds like you're saying that's some type of horrible thing. Remember he let Willie McGuinist go to the Browns at the end of his career? Willie was a great Patriot. But you don't give a guy a big contract for past performance. You already paid for that service. The question is, what is his value, at his age, going forward? Conversely, I thought Belichick is known for giving older veterans a chance and bringing them in for a look to see if what they have left. What's wrong with that? He doesn't want to overpay. That's a good thing. Its all market driven anyway. If the player can get more money elsewhere, God bless him. Go for it.

I don't know why I'm thinking of it now, but the biggest mistake in these contract matters in Patriot history in my opinion, was failing to resign Curtis Martin. I think thats how Bob Kraft feels, and if he could do it over again, he would not play with fire, and do whatever it took to resign Martin when his contract was up. He didn't. A huge mistake. Alas, Curtis became one the Jets all time greats. Sometimes you hit the ball. Sometimes you swing and miss.

George1963 wrote:So
I take it you think Bill Belichick is a pretty good Head Coach as far
as maintaining a certain discipline and a expecting a certain code of
conduct from his players as to what is acceptable and what is not
acceptable?

I think he's like everybody else. How much he'll put up with depends on how much is in it for him.
If Jeff Tarpinian gave him any lip he'd cut him. If Tom Brady lit his cat on fire he'd thank him.

Oh, OK. So when Brady restructured his contract to free up cap space, and then also expressed his strong desire and preference to have the team bring back his pal Wes Welker, and then Belichick did not do what Tommy wanted and low balled Welker, is that the kind of thing you're talking about? Jeez.
BTW, Brady has stated in interviews, on more than one occasion, that every preseason training camp he feels like he has to "earn his job".