Pettigrew is honest

While Lions management spins like crazy, the player is honest and I give him credit for it. He knows his weaknesses and is working on them. He is not a game changing TE, he is a solid combination TE who is very gifted in size and athleticism but needs to work on separation, YAC and continue to work on securing the ball. Nothing has changed my opinion that he shouldn't have been taken where he was taken but is a very solid starting TE and should be for a long time.

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meiden wrote:While Lions management spins like crazy, the player is honest and I give him credit for it. He knows his weaknesses and is working on them. He is not a game changing TE, he is a solid combination TE who is very gifted in size and athleticism but needs to work on separation, YAC and continue to work on securing the ball. Nothing has changed my opinion that he shouldn't have been taken where he was taken but is a very solid starting TE and should be for a long time.

[url=http://www.detroitlions.com/news/ohara/article-1/OHara-Pettigrew-should-be-getting-more-recognition-for-his-performance-at-tight-end-/c46dfa95-81ac-4073-bffb-3166effd31a1

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Pretty hard to knock 83 catches on a team that has a red zone monster named "Megatron" that is always the number one target inside the 20 yd line. The TE position has changed over the past 10 years. I have no problem with the draft position he was taken at. He is the 3rd leading reciever in catches among all TE's in 2011. I'm happy they got him when and where they did.

[quote="Snooker28"]

meiden wrote:While Lions management spins like crazy, the player is honest and I give him credit for it. He knows his weaknesses and is working on them. He is not a game changing TE, he is a solid combination TE who is very gifted in size and athleticism but needs to work on separation, YAC and continue to work on securing the ball. Nothing has changed my opinion that he shouldn't have been taken where he was taken but is a very solid starting TE and should be for a long time.

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Pretty hard to knock 83 catches on a team that has a red zone monster named "Megatron" that is always the number one target inside the 20 yd line. The TE position has changed over the past 10 years. I have no problem with the draft position he was taken at. He is the 3rd leading reciever in catches among all TE's in 2011. I'm happy they got him when and where they did.

A whole lot easier to get 83 catches on a team that has a HUGE discrepancy between run and pass. The number of attempts for the Lions ranked FIRST in the league in passing attempts. This is a team that used the TE as the safety valve most of the season particularly after Best went down. Pettigrew has near the bottom of the league for TE in yards per attempt at 9.4...he was the safety valve. I definitely have a problem where he was drafted as you take him out and put in Scheffler for all those targets and the results are similar and meanwhile the Lions still have needs at interior OL and back seven. I'm happy they got him but not happy where they did.

Interesting rankings by John Clayton given this discussion topic. Now you can disregard Clayton as many do but it's not like he is a johnny come lately to watching the NFL. You may also argue with his rankings but it's not like I'm on an island here in my thoughts on Pettigrew.

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I think Clayton is wrong and that Pettigrew deserves to be on this list but I don't think he should be very high. Given TE is a low value pick for the first round it is why I didn't like using that pick to get a TE who really isn't even top 5. He was marketed as a game changer...that he is not and at least one "expert" agrees with me.

I think Clayton is wrong and that Pettigrew deserves to be on this list but I don't think he should be very high. Given TE is a low value pick for the first round it is why I didn't like using that pick to get a TE who really isn't even top 5. He was marketed as a game changer...that he is not and at least one "expert" agrees with me.

He's been in the league for 3 years and he holds the Lions record for receptions by a TE, he's a top 10 NFL TE, he's young and improving. Now days TE do get taken in the first round because they're becoming more important at the cost of RBs. Mi, I think you've mistaken Pettigrew's return on draft status for for Winslow's.

Dawildboar wrote:I think Clayton is wrong and that Pettigrew deserves to be on this list but I don't think he should be very high. Given TE is a low value pick for the first round it is why I didn't like using that pick to get a TE who really isn't even top 5. He was marketed as a game changer...that he is not and at least one "expert" agrees with me.

He's been in the league for 3 years and he holds the Lions record for receptions by a TE, he's a top 10 NFL TE, he's young and improving. Now days TE do get taken in the first round because they're becoming more important at the cost of RBs. Mi, I think you've mistaken Pettigrew's return on draft status for for Winslow's.

Boar..."holds Lions record for recepts by a TE" This is like telling me a player is good because he starts. There has to be some reference point. The Lions haven't had a TE since Charlie Sanders days when a team would target the TE once a game. You just can't use that as some barometer for quality. It's like saying Kramer was a great QB because he was the first Lion QB to win a playoff game since...well...I can't do the math!

Also, do you know how many TEs were taken this past draft in the first round? Zero. There was only one in the first two rounds. Do you know how many were taken in 2011 in the first round? Zero. There were two taken in round two about midway down. There was one in the lower part of the first round in 2010 and two in the first two rounds. Boar...I don't think there are many taken so high and they shouldn't be. The teams that take a TE over a good RB are the ones that have horrible running games. I'm not mistaken in anything...Pettigrew was taken too high for my liking when the Lions had far too many other needs and a TE of Pettigrew's abilities are just not that hard to find. Heck...I'd take nearly every player taken after Pettigrew in the first round instead of Pettigrew....Mack, Harvin, Oher, Davis, Matthews, Nicks, Britt, Wells all would fill spots where the Lions sorely need players and they could get buy just fine with Scheffler at TE.

i liked the pick then and i like it now. oher was the guy many wanted and he can't carry backus's jock strap. pettigrew is rock solid if not spectacular. there are a ton guys taken early that flame out.

best, lashoure, fairly - those are the guys to complain about.

bongoman wrote:i liked the pick then and i like it now. oher was the guy many wanted and he can't carry backus's jock strap. pettigrew is rock solid if not spectacular. there are a ton guys taken early that flame out.

best, lashoure, fairly - those are the guys to complain about.

Bongo...you know I don't care about what "many wanted" I care about what I wanted. Guys like Mack, Harvin, Matthews, and Davis are all as good at their respective positions as Pettigrew and those were and are bigger needs than TE. I'll complain about Best, Leshoure an Fairley but will also complain when Mayhew ingores need completely then drafts low value positions higher than they should be picked.

mathews doesn't play in the lions system, harvin was a first round reach. i like what the lions have done and the results are in the W/L column. pettigrew is a big part of that record.

the TE is huge part of this offense. the lions got a good one.

bongoman wrote:mathews doesn't play in the lions system, harvin was a first round reach. i like what the lions have done and the results are in the W/L column. pettigrew is a big part of that record.

the TE is huge part of this offense. the lions got a good one.

That's what was said about Harris when he went to the Jets. I don't buy that for a second. He could play in any system. Harvin may be been a "reach" but he has proven to be much better than a reach and the Lions could've had two second round picks to use in subsequent years for other positions. The Lions have done the "easy" part...the tough part is getting to the next step.

As much as I enjoyed the Lions season they didn't beat one team that went to the playoffs and were blown out of the playoffs. Pettigrew did what many, many other TEs could've done, including Scheffler given the number of times he was targeted. He is a fine TE but far from irreplacable and the Lions have the same holes they did when they drafted Pettigrew...OG, OC, CB, OLB and S.

baby steps my friend. the lions are poised to take the next step. i couldn't help but notice the omission of O from your list of needs.

the team is improving by leaps and bounds. and they did load up on OLBers this past draft and snagged a couple of CBs so lets see if they improve there.

today i would say the weakest link is peterman but with reiff they may be able to shuffle things around and patch that hole. or maybe it's cheerios that gets the ziggy. the OL is going to improve.

as for the S position, speivey may or may not be the answer and delmas has to stay healthy. over the past couple of drafts it seems as if the lions tried to move up so they are looking to improve that spot.

that we have holes to fill though is too much to put on pettigrew. TE isn't a hole.

bongoman wrote:baby steps my friend. the lions are poised to take the next step. i couldn't help but notice the omission of O from your list of needs.

the team is improving by leaps and bounds. and they did load up on OLBers this past draft and snagged a couple of CBs so lets see if they improve there.

today i would say the weakest link is peterman but with reiff they may be able to shuffle things around and patch that hole. or maybe it's cheerios that gets the ziggy. the OL is going to improve.

as for the S position, speivey may or may not be the answer and delmas has to stay healthy. over the past couple of drafts it seems as if the lions tried to move up so they are looking to improve that spot.

that we have holes to fill though is too much to put on pettigrew. TE isn't a hole.

Bongo...smarter drafting would mean that the baby steps are over after three years. It's time for the next leap but I'm not sure the Lions are built to get there and they just wasted another pick this past offseason on their road to getting there. Mayhew is stuck in his B range grade as he just won't do what is necessary to get to the next level.

I just disagree that this team is improving by leaps and bounds. They did improve but that was the easy part. Going from 300lbs to 240 is the easy part...it's getting under 200 that is tough. The defense has done nothing to improve this offseason...nothing. To improve they will have to have improved years by some players while nobody regresses. To count on guys like Bentley, Greenwood, Lewis, Whitehead and Lacy to improve this team is similar to counting on guys like Wright, Alphonso Smith, Berry, Levy and Bobby Carpenter to make this defense better. Fool's gold.

Going into the offseason I figured that the Lions might be in a position to make the next step but they did nothing at interior OL, OLB, S or CB. Guys like Durant and Tulloch should be the weak links on this team. Now we count on Delmas to finally learn to take good angles and for the first time cover someone. We count on Spievey to become a quality player when he has been a medicore backup to this point. We count on Berry who has shown the beat writers that he is all world but on Sunday rarely defends a pass and only occasionally makes a strong tackle. And we count on Peterman and Raiola to finally move the guy in front of him back a yard or two on third and 1. Einstein can use Mayhew and Schwartz to prove his definition of insanity....

No...TE is not a hole...but it wouldn't be a hole with Scheffler, Graham (in the third round instead of Spievey) and yet we'd have Matthews, Vontae Davis or Mack starting filling another hole. No question in my mind...Mayhew picked the wrong talented guy in the first round and spun it as Pettigrew would transform the position. Still waiting....

but there is much hind sight in your argument. graham in the 3rd round? rerun that draft and he doesn't last past the 1st round.

is bently going to pan out? it depends on how he is used. he will bomb as a CB but he will be a valuable player as a nickle back. greenwood has the tools and reminds me of another sammy lee hill. a small school guy who can become a sevicable member of the D. same with lewis. he is a sub package guy who could make the QB take note of where he is on the field.

next season the lions will join the elite. there are no perfect teams in the NFL. basically it comes down to who is the healthiest and gets on a roll at the right time of the year. the lions have elevated the roster and the coaching staff to the point that they have to be in the conversation.

when others spoke glowingly about the talent on the lions i had said that they were woefully thin. no more. this team really has a shot, finally.

As much as I enjoyed the Lions season they didn't beat one team that went to the playoffs and were blown out of the playoffs. Pettigrew did what many, many other TEs could've done, including Scheffler given the number of times he was targeted. He is a fine TE but far from irreplacable and the Lions have the same holes they did when they drafted Pettigrew...OG, OC, CB, OLB and S.

Mi, Lions got screwed by the officials in the playoff game plain and simple.

Screwed by the officials in Green Bay on the last game of the season.

Screwed by the officials against San Fran.

Probably screwed against the Falcons.

BEAT the Broncos BADLY

Kept the Raiders and the Chargers from making the playoffs.

Let me ask you two questions...Who takes Mayhew's place and does better and why?

bongoman wrote:but there is much hind sight in your argument. graham in the 3rd round? rerun that draft and he doesn't last past the 1st round.

is bently going to pan out? it depends on how he is used. he will bomb as a CB but he will be a valuable player as a nickle back. greenwood has the tools and reminds me of another sammy lee hill. a small school guy who can become a sevicable member of the D. same with lewis. he is a sub package guy who could make the QB take note of where he is on the field.

next season the lions will join the elite. there are no perfect teams in the NFL. basically it comes down to who is the healthiest and gets on a roll at the right time of the year. the lions have elevated the roster and the coaching staff to the point that they have to be in the conversation.

when others spoke glowingly about the talent on the lions i had said that they were woefully thin. no more. this team really has a shot, finally.

Doesn't have to be hindsight if you evaluate players well and also look at need. The Lions do pretty well in the former but not so well in the latter. Who is to say that Mayhew doesn't draft Graham instead of Spievey had they taken a DB where they took Pettigrew then in that subsequent draft they take the TE they want?

Also, Bentley as a valuable player as nickle is FAR from assured. This kid hasn't put on pad one to go against Jennings. He is what he is... a low third round draft pick taken after 10 DBs that most others felt were better prospects. Mayhew needed a DB and grabbed this one as he was the best available...not the best chance in the draft of being a valuable player. I will be absolutely thrilled if this kid, Greenwood or Green do anything more than be like Hogue was last year at LB...a spot player needed if someone needs a blow or gets hurt during a game.

I'm not looking for perfection. Anyone who wants to respond can take that argument and put it in their backpocket. I want Mayhew to start to fill some damn holes that have been filled with unacceptably poor players for too long. There is no excuse for still having zero push from the interior OL, an OLB who can't make a play in the backfield or cover a TE if his life depended on it, and a CB and S who wouldn't start for any but a couple teams. Meanwhile there is an overabundance of wealth at WR, DT and TE. I contend that two of those positions are the easiest to fill on a team (WR and TE).

Dawildboar wrote:As much as I enjoyed the Lions season they didn't beat one team that went to the playoffs and were blown out of the playoffs. Pettigrew did what many, many other TEs could've done, including Scheffler given the number of times he was targeted. He is a fine TE but far from irreplacable and the Lions have the same holes they did when they drafted Pettigrew...OG, OC, CB, OLB and S.

Mi, Lions got screwed by the officials in the playoff game plain and simple.

Screwed by the officials in Green Bay on the last game of the season.

Screwed by the officials against San Fran.

Probably screwed against the Falcons.

BEAT the Broncos BADLY

Kept the Raiders and the Chargers from making the playoffs.

Let me ask you two questions...Who takes Mayhew's place and does better and why?

I don't see how the Lions got screwed by the officials to the point of losing many of those games but I see your argument that they got shafted on a call or two. Still...they didn't win ONE of those games and were SOUNDLY beaten by the Saints in the playoffs. And please don't try to convince me that the Broncos, Raiders or Chargers were any good last year. One team made the playoffs because one team HAD to make the playoffs. None deserved to be there.

I don't take anyone besides Mayhew at this point. I don't believe I've ever called for his firing or replacement. Still, it's not an either or proposition. The best resut is that Mayhew and Schwartz learn from their mistakes and improve. This isn't a major change I'm asking for...it's adding need to their value proposition. They need to quit spending resources on places like WR and TE and quit thinking that they can find a gem for spots that have been empty for so long. Finally they need to quit putting so much value on some of their own guys like Raiola, Backus and Levy. They are the only ones in the NFL who rate those kinds of guys as highly as they do.

Just today there is an article where Schwartz is glowing about Erick Freaking Coleman. The guy has 10 years experience and we know what he is...he tackles downfield OK, can't rush the passer, hit the guy in the hole or cover his shadow. Still Schwartz acts like this is some first or second year guy who is looking great in camp!!!! Give me a break! The back seven stinks out loud and please don't use the first few games against weak offenses to spin that the defensive talent is fine.

Mayhew has his B grade...he got the team from stink to good but hasn't shown me he knows how to get to great yet. I'd absolutely give him another offseason or two but certainly his leash isn't long!

RLMcB wrote:OK, I'm going to be the nickle-plated son of a bitch that tells you how the cow ate the cabbage. I once heard a woman call it cababbage. The top three players with the Lions are the direct result of M Millen's drafts, He drafted Megatron, and his team went 0 and forever to get the 1st pick in 2009 when the drafted Stafford. MM had crippled this team so badly they were 2-14 in 2009 and had Suh fall in their lap. Both drafts in 2009 and 2010 were no brainers, I could have had a successful draft by getting Stafford and Suh, if I had drafted fire hydrants for the rest of those drafts. Here's the link to the song. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Schwartz and Mayhew will make or break it on the drafts of 2011 and beyond. From here on it takes money to buy whiskey, no more free passes.

And now to shoot off from RLs very perceptive point...let's look at Mayhew's drafts of 2011 and 2012. It is still early but 2011 looks a little two sided...some real talent from Farley and Young is the good side but that is where it ends...for now. Horrible character issues from this group which is a yellow flag to me (red to others here). Even if they should all become choir boys for the rest of their career there are still questions regarding durability and production. Fairley gets a pass for his hurt foot be we really never saw any consistently productive play from him. Hill was a better DT (again it could've been because of injury). We have no idea about Leshoure yet. Please don't sell me on how good he's looked during practice...until he at least puts a foot on the field during a preseason game he is an unknown. All we know about him is that he is a pothead, he's stupid (same offense, same location, w/in two weeks???) and that he is coming off a full achilles tear.

At least there was some modicum of need for those first three picks. While the Lions did have three solid DTs, Corey Wiliams is aging and the Lions rotate DL like nobody's business...not huge need but at least arguable. Young filled a need that was there last year but not this year. Recall that the Lions top two WRs were CJ and Burleson with absolutely nobody in the wings. Not a huge need but still a need. And no doubt there was need at RB.

2012? Reiff definitely filled a need and with someone who was even arguably a value pick at 23. I like it especially given the reported versatility. Given Mayhew's complete disregard for OG my hope is that Cherilus and Backus hold Reiff off at OT and he is so good that he replaces Peterman at least during his rookie year. Absolutely no sense in picking Broyles. I know he had some records in college but so did the guy who was just CUT by the Jags and picked up as a FA by the Lions. Broyles may end up being good but he was a luxury pick when interior OL and back seven were in such need. Bentley was an OK pick and really the only reason I don't like this was that the DB should've been taken in round 2 also. We will see what Bentley can bring but remember what happened to the most recent small school, lower pick success story by the Lions, Sammie Hill, when considering what to expect from Bentley. Even with all the "success" around how well Hill has done, he was of minor impact his first year and only a little better two years ago. It wasn't until last year when his game started coming together. I just don't expect Bentley to be of any major impact this year. I'm looking at Berry or Lacey to win the spot opposite of Houston and Smith the first nickel. Bentley should make the team but only contribute for injury.

Mayhew is on the clock now and to my view has made similar mistakes as he made early in his tenure. He does some good things, a few really good things, and some that stunt the rate of growth of this team.

OK, I'm going to be the nickle-plated son of a bitch that tells you how the cow ate the cabbage. I once heard a woman call it cababbage. The top three players with the Lions are the direct result of M Millen's drafts, He drafted Megatron, and his team went 0 and forever to get the 1st pick in 2009 when the drafted Stafford. MM had crippled this team so badly they were 2-14 in 2009 and had Suh fall in their lap. Both drafts in 2009 and 2010 were no brainers, I could have had a successful draft by getting Stafford and Suh, if I had drafted fire hydrants for the rest of those drafts. Here's the link to the song. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Schwartz and Mayhew will make or break it on the drafts of 2011 and beyond. From here on it takes money to buy whiskey, no more free passes.

Guys, I will agree with you all Mayhew was asked in the first couple of years was don't #$%^ up the pick, to his credit he didn't. But there's more to the story...Those picks came with some pretty heavy contracts that cripple you elsewhere. Mayhew has been able to get some pretty damn good players to play above their contract, that works for 2 - 3 years but eventually those guys, like Avril, Sammy Hill, Willie Young, etc start to say "Show me the money!" and that's when things get ticklish. I'm wondering how they sign Stafford and Suh and have money left over for the solid players that surround them. Things do get harder from here on out but I like what I've seen from him and I'm as confident with him calling the shots as anyone else in the league.

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