Guppys take

George1963 wrote:.

Shit, I just spent time typing a bunch of stuff and then I hit "Preview" before sending.  That is the first time I've ever tried to use "Preview".  Then I hit the back arrow to go back to it because I had some editing to do, and my whole thing that I typed just f*ing disappeared.  I tried to find it or get it back without success.   I don't have the time or energy to type the whole thing over again.  So fuck it.  I'll try to put together a Cliff Notes version before I run out of gas.

Bottom line:  I'm OK with a 1, maybe 2 game suspension for Brady, not 4.  This is on the state of the record at present and barring any new information that comes out on appeal.  He should appeal, just like Rice, Peterson, Vilma, et al.  The quarter of a season suspension based on "probability" is the equivalent of giving Yankees pitcher Michael Peneda a suspension of 45 games (1/4 season) when he wiped pine tar off his neck and then on the ball before he pitched it.  (His actual suspension was 10 games, or approx 5% of the season.)  But then again, here, the so-called "lack of cooperation" by Brady may be being viewed by the league as worse than the "thing" he "probably" had "general awareness" of, and that was the reason why it came down so hard on him.  The fault for that is on Brady's lawyers for bad advise and bad strategy, and on Brady himself as well. 

My feeling is that every person comes as a package.  People have good traits and they have flaws.  Brady is no exception.  He has good traits (many).  He has flaws too.  Anal.  Obsessive.  A little bit of a prima donna at times, maybe.  Whatever.  Its beyond debate that he needs a ball 1 psi lower than 12.5 to be successful.  Obviously, he doesn't.  I agree with Keith Olberman - punish him mainly for being stupid.  A mole hill has been turned into a mountain - unnecessarily, and his obsessiveness (arrogance?) is to blame in my opinion.   

For the Patriot team itself, make the punishment fit the crime.  This punishment (draft picks, $1 Mil) doesn't.  Any neutral arbitrator or judge will throw it out as being arbitrary and capricious, and against equity and good conscience.  Way over the top.  (Compare "warning" only given to Vikings and Panthers for heating the balls on the sideline, and $20,000 fine only for Chargers for receivers using sticky towels to wipe their hands).  It sucks that we're even talking about this.  Whatever.  "It is what it is", I guess.  I just can't devote any energy to this crap.  Fine them.  Take their draft picks.  F*ing do it.  Just let me know when the soap opera is over, and actual football on the field starts again.  This shit doesn't happen in other sports, not like this.  Its out of control. 

Bill Belichick.  Everyone scratched their heads last year when BB drafted a QB in the second round.  "Jimmy Garoppolo?  Coach, what the hell are you doing?" we all said.  We not only already have a QB, we have THE QB.  Well, I guess now we know.  BB - the genius - once again shows he playing chess while the rest of us poor slobs fumble with checkers. LOL.  Though he won't admit it, the Evil Genius probably actually likes the fact that Tom sits out and he can get Jimmy G. some game experience so he'll be more ready when the time comes to transition.  BB: always looking to the future.  
Wait, does that mean we will actually field a pro-level secondary next year?  Because I'm not so sure.

To the haters, I'm going to take a step back from all this garbage.  Say whatever you want.  Bottom line is people are going to believe what they want to believe, and that's not going to change.  Call the Tuck Rule call by Ref Walt Coleman an example of "cheating".  Call the substitutions in the Ravens game "illegal".  Say that the Pats taped the Rams walkthrough practice, even though it was recanted by the very reporter  who reported it.  Say the Pats "attempted to introduce" an illegal kicking ball into the AFC Championship game even though Ted Wells said they didn't.  Say that Brady gave direct orders to fat ass McNally to quickly duck into the Men's Room and stick a needle in each ball even though there is no such evidence.  Say whatever.  I'm tired and I don't care.  Believe whatever you want to believe.  I'm just looking forward to next year and less lawyers, and more actual football.  I think the Patriots will be playing 16 games... I think.  

I still support Brady, wish him the best in his appeal, and I support "No Brady No Banner".  But I am clearly very disappointed in these turn of events.  So stupid and unnecessary.  Also, and I'm probably in the minority in this, I was very disappointed in Tom snubbing the White House visit, and was disappointed in his flimsy excuse for not going.  I don't care if you love the president or hate him, or you were mad at his press secretary for something insulting he said; that's all irrelevant.  The White House visit is a tradition, and you should have been there with your team, your owner and your head coach who were all there.  No excuses Tom.  Vince Wilfork, no longer a Patriot, skipping the trip is not the same thing.  Brady skipping out on that trip was just the first thing in what has been an absolutely terrible offseason after a thrilling superbowl win.  Leaves a very sour taste.    

I just ran out of gas.

George1963 wrote:
I can't speak for all 'haters', but for myself. And only to tell you two things:


I grew up in the 1970s as a fan of an AFC Central team that wasn't the Steelers, and have never hated them and I, personally (not speaking for all haters) have no problem with success.
I have a HUGE problem with fucking with the law, rules, policies, norms, deals, or basic fairness to achieve it.



Well, you are by no means alone.  There's certainly no shortage of sanctimonious, holier than thou people claiming they are lifetime owners of the moral high ground in this kinda, sorta, maybe, "probable" "thing". 

They number in the millions actually, and they're everywhere, in 44 and a half states in this country.  Indeed, most are so self proclaimed morally superior that they strongly support --- but mind you, only in one certain (but not other similar) situations --- twenty years in solitary confinement for low level infractions such as jaywalking.  Jaywalking = very bad.  However, illegal stickum = not so bad.   Salary cap violations = not so bad.  Warming balls on sidelines = not so bad.  Sticky towels = not so bad.  PEDs = not so bad.  Silicone on jerseys = not so bad.  Faking injuries to stop play = not so bad.  Artificial crowd noise = not so bad.  Illegal texting to the sidelines = not so bad.  Etc., etc.

It all depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?  Its not so much the infraction itself that we feel so strongly about, but rather who is 'more probable than not' guilty of it that determines the level of our scorn.

One point to note, briefly.  BB (and entire coaching staff, and head equipment manager) not involved and without knowledge.  It must be an extremely disappointing finding for so many of those high minded souls in those 44 and a half states.  I'll bet they're downright pissed off at Mr. Wells for that conclusion.  The argument that because Coach Belichick is perceived as "knowing everything", therefore we'll just conveniently presume and assume that he must have known of the comings and goings of some low level, part time assistant equipment goofball who went by the nickname "Bird", is nothing short of just plain stupid.  But amazingly, some people actually make that argument -- and actually believe it, if you can believe that.  Ted Wells' conclusion re BB be damned.  Belichick knew, right?  Unfortunately, those people just don't get that PSI in a football is an issue that is so friggin beneath BB, and all the truly important things of real consequence that he is concerned with, it is just laughable to postulate otherwise, and that psi in footballs actually occupies a place on his To Do List on game day, or on any day.  Just plain stupid.

But hey, lets use this opportunity to crucify him while we're at it.   Here's the plan.  Lets adopt and use the Ted Wells' conclusions that we love ("probable" "general awareness" by the QB), and then at the same time, just disregard and ignore Mr. Wells' conclusions that don't fit our desired narrative (BB did nothing inappropriate, nor knew of any wrong actions of others).  That way, if we get to cleverly pick and choose which Wells conclusions we like, and which ones we don't, we can drag the innocent head coach (who we despise anyway) into the shit, and call for severe punishment for him too, all the while looking down from our lofty perch on our high horses, loudly proclaiming to the world our own moral superiority.

My point?  Take a breath from the all out constant crucifying of Tom Brady for a moment for his "probable" "general awareness", and candidly acknowledge that Bill Belichick played NO role and had NO knowledge of anything.  If you were among those that placed any blame on Belichick, then man up, admit that you jumped the gun, retract your previous erroneous judgment, and apologize for rashly jumping to conclusions about the coach that were not warranted. 

George1963 wrote:
Your team's a national joke, and you're a local one.
Blow it out your ass.

Thanks for helping make my point about people who overreach and overreact.  You have pretty much made a career on these forums out of overreaching and overreacting when it comes to the Patriots.  We'll call McNally the "Deflator", but we'll call you the "OverReactor".

I also made my point regarding Bill Belichick being innocent.  And HE IS, so that's that.  I recognize that is a HUGE disappointment and let down to so many folks like yourself.

I made my point that any argument, including yours, that "Belichick knows everything, therefore, he must have known too" is just plain stupid.  I stand by that, and that argument is, without doubt, idiotic.  One cannot adopt Ted Wells' conclusions to condemn Brady, and at the same time dismiss and ignore his conclusion regarding Belichick, the coaching staff, and everyone else in the organization (except the 3 central characters) as being totally innocent.  If you adopt Wells to condemn Brady, then you must also adopt Wells to acknowledge Belichick's non-involvement and innocence.  If you don't, you are the one who is a joke my friend.  

As to Brady himself, I think the final chapter of his story is not written yet, so I'll simply wait for that to play out.  I said at the outset that based on the state of the record at it existed when I posted that I was OK with a 1 or 2 game suspension, but not 4.  So clearly I was accepting some punishment for Brady based only on the presence of "smoke" ("probable" "general awareness"), even though, despite a multimillion dollar investigation, proof of "fire" (actual direct involvement in rule breaking) is lacking.  Depending on what happens through the rest of Brady's appeal process, it will be that either (a) 4 games stands, and that will be appropriate, (b) suspension will be reduced to 2 games, and that will be appropriate, or (c) it will be zero games, and that will be appropriate.  Which ever way it turns out, I won't argue against it, I'll just accept it as being appropriate and just, and finally move on.

Finally, here's the basic difference between me and you as I see it.  I recognize that there are two extremes.  On one end we have blind uncompromising loyalty to the Patriots.  On the other end we have blind uncompromising hatred of the Patriots.  Let me be clear.  I am not blindly loyal, and I don't approve of those fans who are.  I disapprove of wrongdoing when satisfactorily proven, and I approve of appropriate punishment (proportional and consistent, not excessive or unjust).  I recognize that, as with most things in life, between the above two extremes, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. 

Just as blind loyalty is wrong, blind hatred is likewise wrong.  The truth resides in the middle.  I, for one, realize that.  You, on the other hand, reside on the far end of the "hatred" extreme, are uncompromising, and not accepting of the existence of any middle ground, even when it is starring you in the face.  Its pretty much always been that way.

Dmounts wrote:It's not like Brady Raped 2 women or anything. Plus there is no proof he did anything wrong. He's being judged by omeone who BELIEVES he knew something or possibly done something wrong.

Dmounts wrote:

It's not like Brady Raped 2 women or anything. Plus there is no proof he did anything wrong. He's being judged by someone who BELIEVES he knew something or possibly done something wrong.


Spot on Dmounts. 

As opposed to the Vikings, that we KNOW actually did something wrong with the ball because its right there on tape.   Vikings? - Give them a "stern" warning.  "Hey boys, don't do that with the balls again, okay."  Patriots, on the other hand? - Lets appease the angry mob.  "Give us Barabas.  Crucify them."  Makes sense, right?......in the Bizzarro World maybe.

But I thought Goodell was all about "a level playing field"?   "Level playing field"?  Pffft.   Just not when it comes to recusing himself from hearing Tom Brady's appeal, I guess.  "Level playing field" only applies in select situations apparently.  Maybe Rog decided to preside over the "appeal" (cough, cough) of his lieutenent Troy Vincent's "decision" that Rog himself already signed off on, because he didn't want to get embarrassed a third time.  No doubt he's still smarting from being overturned by Paul Tagliabue and federal judge Barbara Jones in the two other cases of his inconsistent and flawed decisions on player discipline.  But, by God, "level playing field" be damned, he's going to get it "right" this time!

The league never cared so much about psi in a ball before.  Ever.  But hey, this time its different.  The league did NOTHING to correct the early ESPN leaks of false information, and it was that false information that drove the national narrative, and the toxic toothpaste of false information could not be put back in the tube.  You think The Fuhrer, and the other former Jets officials now in the league office actually cared about that?  Nah.  They let it go on and on while they sat back and did nothing.  Shouldn't we know who is doing the leaking anyway, and why?  Screw that they say.  They don't care.  The new standard now - since it involves the Patriots - is "Let's take a howitzer to kill a mosquito, and that will show the world how tough we are and that we mean business."   "It will also help us achieve our goal of parity across the league, which New England keeps thwarting and frustrating us by winning too much which so many fans of the other 31 are sick and tired of, and now we've got our excuse to do something about that.  Taking them down a peg will be good overall for business."  A friggin joke.  

The conclusion (mere opinion, actually) of guilt based on flimsy circumstantial evidence may or may not be a travesty of justice. 

However, there is no doubt whatsoever that this punishment in relation to this offense (if one actually took place, which we don't truly know), and in comparison to the punishment others received for comparable misdemeanors, is most definitely a travesty.

Who cares anymore?  Forget what's fair or unfair, real or fake, just or unjust.  It doesn't matter.  No one - on either side - is going to change their opinions.  For the Patriots will be "Us Against The World" next season, and Pats games should draw the largest numbers of viewers, because, whether you love 'em or hate 'em, in either case, you've just got to watch! 

Its all good for busine$$.  Right now the 31 owners (sans Kraft) and their boy Roger (who will probably get a raise) are high-fiving and absolutely loving it.




     

guppy wrote:

Dmounts wrote:

It's not like Brady Raped 2 women or anything. Plus there is no proof he did anything wrong. He's being judged by someone who BELIEVES he knew something or possibly done something wrong.


Spot on Dmounts. 

As opposed to the Vikings, that we KNOW actually did something wrong with the ball because its right there on tape.   Vikings? - Give them a "stern" warning.  "Hey boys, don't do that with the balls again, okay."  Patriots, on the other hand? - Lets appease the angry mob.  "Give us Barabas.  Crucify them."  Makes sense, right?......in the Bizzarro World maybe.

But I thought Goodell was all about "a level playing field"?   "Level playing field"?  Pffft.   Just not when it comes to recusing himself from hearing Tom Brady's appeal, I guess.  "Level playing field" only applies in select situations apparently.  Maybe Rog decided to preside over the "appeal" (cough, cough) of his lieutenent Troy Vincent's "decision" that Rog himself already signed off on, because he didn't want to get embarrassed a third time.  No doubt he's still smarting from being overturned by Paul Tagliabue and federal judge Barbara Jones in the two other cases of his inconsistent and flawed decisions on player discipline.  But, by God, "level playing field" be damned, he's going to get it "right" this time!

The league never cared so much about psi in a ball before.  Ever.  But hey, this time its different.  The league did NOTHING to correct the early ESPN leaks of false information, and it was that false information that drove the national narrative, and the toxic toothpaste of false information could not be put back in the tube.  You think The Fuhrer, and the other former Jets officials now in the league office actually cared about that?  Nah.  They let it go on and on while they sat back and did nothing.  Shouldn't we know who is doing the leaking anyway, and why?  Screw that they say.  They don't care.  The new standard now - since it involves the Patriots - is "Let's take a howitzer to kill a mosquito, and that will show the world how tough we are and that we mean business."   "It will also help us achieve our goal of parity across the league, which New England keeps thwarting and frustrating us by winning too much which so many fans of the other 31 are sick and tired of, and now we've got our excuse to do something about that.  Taking them down a peg will be good overall for business."  A friggin joke.  

The conclusion (mere opinion, actually) of guilt based on flimsy circumstantial evidence may or may not be a travesty of justice. 

However, there is no doubt whatsoever that this punishment in relation to this offense (if one actually took place, which we don't truly know), and in comparison to the punishment others received for comparable misdemeanors, is most definitely a travesty.

Who cares anymore?  Forget what's fair or unfair, real or fake, just or unjust.  It doesn't matter.  No one - on either side - is going to change their opinions.  For the Patriots will be "Us Against The World" next season, and Pats games should draw the largest numbers of viewers, because, whether you love 'em or hate 'em, in either case, you've just got to watch! 

Its all good for busine$$.  Right now the 31 owners (sans Kraft) and their boy Roger (who will probably get a raise) are high-fiving and absolutely loving it.




     

George1963 wrote:
Those are what the rules dictate.
That petty shit don't apply to the Patriots!

B.S.  That's just you trolling.  Its actually just the opposite.  The rules, while the apply to everybody, have not been applied evenly, uniformly and justly, since the Patriots have been dealt with more harshly in an out-of-proportion, unfair manner as compared to others.  Its unbelievable that fans outside of NE constantly say the Patriots are shown "favoritism", when its actually just the opposite. 

Its like people constantly saying they changed the rule on hitting the QB low just for Tom Brady.  Um, no idiots, they actually changed the rule after Carson Palmer's knee was rolled up on by Kemo Von Whats-His-Name from the Steelers, and its called the Carson Palmer Rule.  But, I'll bet the number of people who erroneously think its the Brady Rule actually outnumber the people who know correctly that its the Carson Palmer Rule.  By the way, who in their right mind would think that is a bad rule change?  Who wouldn't want their QB protected from low hits when he's defenseless?  But people bring up Brady's name with this in a negative way to make their argument about so-called "favoritism".  Idiots.  


People are just generally stupid.  So I don't care anymore.  Many, many people still talk about the Patriots "filming practices", even though anyone with half a brain knows they NEVER did, and that there was a full retraction and a front page apology from the very reporter who jumped the gun on his info and wrote that lie.  You would think a retraction and an apology would matter.   But, No.  Still, 15 years later, that falsehood is unbelievably still part of the national narrative.  More idiots.  So I quit.  Its no use to talk sense and facts any longer.  Those things don't matter.  Only emotion matters.  We have a villain.  So everybody jump on board and assign all kinds of nonsense, whether true or false, doesn't matter, to the villain.  We need a villain.  Because we love to hate the villain.  You know, just like the nutty fans of pro wrestling do.  That's what this is now. 

The thing about "filming practices" would be the equivalent of me constantly saying the Colts are cheaters for pumping in artificial crowd noise (btw, a far greater competitive advantage than a football's psi being off by 1).  However, I know I can't say that because the Colts were actually never have found to have done that.  So they didn't do it, and I acknowledge that.  But the point is, how would you like it if everyone, everywhere still said they did, and all you ever hear is "those cheaters are probably pumping in artificial crowd noise again to disrupt the opposition"?   That's what its like for me to keep reading and hearing about "filming other teams' practices".  So, like I said, I give up on reason and rational thinking, and do not care anymore.  People will always be stupid,  and I no longer care about their stupid talk. 

All I care about is the games themselves on Sunday.  The Colts are being called the favorites to come out of the AFC this year.  So lets just see how they do.

    

 

George1963 wrote:
I never EVER had a problem with the Patriots until they ADMITTED to cheating.



Ya, right.  Just for review purposes, provide me with a summary of the "ADMITTED" part.  
And, when you say "they" could you be a little more specific.  Who is "they"?

(I actually don't know why I'm doing this.  Its really a waste of both of our times.)

George1963 wrote:
If it's not on the level, it's not worth watching.
One team, the most successful team of the last decade plus, being ADMITTED cheaters make me think it's not on the level.


Well then, what was your take on the last 6 quarters of football the Pats played in?  The second half the the AFCCG, and the SB?  Did you think those 6 quarters were somehow, some way, not on the level?

How about this?  Do you think Malcolm Butler made that play because NE "more probably than not" intercepted radio signals from the headsets of the Seahawks Offensive Coordinator or from Pete Carroll, whoever called the pass play, and relayed it in to Butler via a secret speaker in his helmet, and that's the reason he made the interception?  

Or, do you think what I know to be true, that is that Malcolm was coached up on that play in practice in preparation for the SB by outstanding, exceptional coaching after he got beat on that very play in practice by Jimmy Garappolo, and that he was coached up to plant his back foot and drive off it so as to close as quickly as possible on the receiver and beat him to the ball? 

Because, I'll tell you, just so you know:  the intercepted radio signal theory did not happen. 

But the outstanding, exceptional preparation, coaching and practice did.  

George1963 wrote:
Cause I swear I've never seen someone go from "Fight to the end!" to laying on his back and showing his shriveled nuts so quickly in my life.

Its pretty simple really.  No need to read some far out fantasy into it.  As a practical matter in business you can't sue 31 business partners, including in effect suing 1/32 of yourself since you are 1 of the 32, and come out a "winner" in any sense.  You can only "Fight to the end" when you are facing an opponent with whom you will never have to deal with again in your life, no matter whether you win or lose.  However, when your opponents are people who you consider partners, now and they will still be partners in the future after your war with them is over, you simply don't go there.  You don't go to war with your own partners unless you plan to not have them as partners any longer.  The better decision for the long term health of not only the group of which you are member, but also of your own franchise, is to back off.  For Mr. K, that sober realization finally outweighed all others.  As painful as it was, it was the right decision under the circumstances.

But, what the hell.  Lets do what we do.  Lets engage in wild speculation that there is more "really bad stuff" that Goodell revealed he had in his private sit down with Kraft, but is holding back from public knowledge as a personal "favor" to his buddy, and the Law and Order Commish then used the secret stuff as leverage to arm twist the corrupt, criminal owner into backing down, keeping his mouth shut, and taking one up the rear for the good of the "team".  Ya, lets do that.  Lets just assume that there is this "really bad stuff", and its really, really, really bad.  Its more fun that way.   

George1963 wrote:Thanks for helping make my point about people who overreach and overreact.  You have pretty much made a career on these forums out of overreaching and overreacting when it comes to the Patriots.  We'll call McNally the "Deflator", but we'll call you the "OverReactor".


I say I dislike people who cheat.


You say I'm self righteous.


I think people should be honest in all their dealings Guppy. I'm as sincere about that as I can possibly be.
I never EVER had a problem with the Patriots until they ADMITTED to cheating.



I think people should be honest in all they do..
You see that as a character flaw on my part, and try to define degrees of honesty.
There aren't any. You're honest or you're not.
PERIOD.


You think there's something else to it for me. There isn't.


You think honesty is a nebulous thing that depends on the situation.


I know it's not.


What the hell is wrong with you?


Seriously?


Is your life so empty that the possibility that a man who doesn't know you and doesn't care might be less than the you God you propped him up to drive you so out of your mind that you lose all reason?*


What the hell is wrong with you?


* I'll just head off your 1000 word holier than thou monologue right here. I only care to the point that I like watching football.
If it's not on the level, it's not worth watching.
One team, the most successful team of the last decade plus, being ADMITTED cheaters make me think it's not on the level.
Fucks up my sundays.
I'll go to car races.
Hey! Know what happens if they find out you cheated in a late model feature?
You fucking lose.

Admin wrote:

George1963 wrote:Thanks for helping make my point about people who overreach and overreact.  You have pretty much made a career on these forums out of overreaching and overreacting when it comes to the Patriots.  We'll call McNally the "Deflator", but we'll call you the "OverReactor".


I say I dislike people who cheat.


You say I'm self righteous.


I think people should be honest in all their dealings Guppy. I'm as sincere about that as I can possibly be.
I never EVER had a problem with the Patriots until they ADMITTED to cheating.



I think people should be honest in all they do..
You see that as a character flaw on my part, and try to define degrees of honesty.
There aren't any. You're honest or you're not.
PERIOD.


You think there's something else to it for me. There isn't.


You think honesty is a nebulous thing that depends on the situation.


I know it's not.


What the hell is wrong with you?


Seriously?


Is your life so empty that the possibility that a man who doesn't know you and doesn't care might be less than the you God you propped him up to drive you so out of your mind that you lose all reason?*


What the hell is wrong with you?


* I'll just head off your 1000 word holier than thou monologue right here. I only care to the point that I like watching football.
If it's not on the level, it's not worth watching.
One team, the most successful team of the last decade plus, being ADMITTED cheaters make me think it's not on the level.
Fucks up my sundays.
I'll go to car races.
Hey! Know what happens if they find out you cheated in a late model feature?
You fucking lose.

George.... that put a tear of joy in my eye. Too bad the intended person will not get even 2 percent of what you are saying. It seems he only has thoughts of deep meditation and devotion to his Tom Brady statue no matter how tarnished it has become.


Hey Admin, there is no tarnish at all, except in your wishes and dreams. 

To borrow a phrase from your guy George, "Blow it out your ass."

guppy wrote:

George1963 wrote:
I never EVER had a problem with the Patriots until they ADMITTED to cheating.



Ya, right.  Just for review purposes, provide me with a summary of the "ADMITTED" part. 

They never admitted to cheating?
 
And, when you say "they" could you be a little more specific.  Who is "they"?

Kraft and Belichick. It was a condition of their punishment after spygate. They did it right after Goody destroyed whatever evidence the Pats decided they wanted to turn over and broomed the whole thing. They both did it again at the next league meeting.
Are you out of your mind?
What, do want me to provide a link to something we both know happened?

(I actually don't know why I'm doing this.  Its really a waste of both of our times.)

It's never a waste of my time to watch you embarrass yourself.

George1963 wrote:George.... that put a tear of joy in my eye. Too bad the intended person will not get even 2 percent of what you are saying.

Guppy is far from the only otherwise reasonable person I know who flat loses his mind when it comes to this stuff.
I swear, "Jerry Rice used stick um so Brady is innocent!!", "Goodell effed up with Ray Rice so Brady is innocent!!",  "Mortenson posted something that wasn't true so Brady is innocent!!"

WTF?


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guppy wrote:

Admin wrote:

George1963 wrote:Thanks for helping make my point about people who overreach and overreact.  You have pretty much made a career on these forums out of overreaching and overreacting when it comes to the Patriots.  We'll call McNally the "Deflator", but we'll call you the "OverReactor".


I say I dislike people who cheat.


You say I'm self righteous.


I think people should be honest in all their dealings Guppy. I'm as sincere about that as I can possibly be.
I never EVER had a problem with the Patriots until they ADMITTED to cheating.



I think people should be honest in all they do..
You see that as a character flaw on my part, and try to define degrees of honesty.
There aren't any. You're honest or you're not.
PERIOD.


You think there's something else to it for me. There isn't.


You think honesty is a nebulous thing that depends on the situation.


I know it's not.


What the hell is wrong with you?


Seriously?


Is your life so empty that the possibility that a man who doesn't know you and doesn't care might be less than the you God you propped him up to drive you so out of your mind that you lose all reason?*


What the hell is wrong with you?


* I'll just head off your 1000 word holier than thou monologue right here. I only care to the point that I like watching football.
If it's not on the level, it's not worth watching.
One team, the most successful team of the last decade plus, being ADMITTED cheaters make me think it's not on the level.
Fucks up my sundays.
I'll go to car races.
Hey! Know what happens if they find out you cheated in a late model feature?
You fucking lose.

George.... that put a tear of joy in my eye. Too bad the intended person will not get even 2 percent of what you are saying. It seems he only has thoughts of deep meditation and devotion to his Tom Brady statue no matter how tarnished it has become.


Hey Admin, there is no tarnish at all, except in your wishes and dreams. 

To borrow a phrase from your guy George, "Blow it out your ass."

Admin wrote:

I'm glad to see you could take a few minutes away from your humping of the blowup Brady doll to reply to us here. Have a nice day Gup. And- just to let you know.... the golden boy ain't as shiny as YOU think he is. In fact, the problem that exists, is the difference between what you think and what everyone else thinks.


I'm glad to take note of the kind of things that "bring a tear of joy" to your eyes Admin.

You know what kind of things bring a tear of joy to mine?

- The fact that Bill Cowher basically poo-pooed the significance of spygate, and said all teams tried to steal signals.  He also said taping sideline coaches out in the open was not the reason his Steelers lost to the Pats, and the only thing he thought the Pats were guilty of is possibly "arrogance".

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Another one?

- The fact that Ben Roethlesberger says Tom Brady is the NFL's best QB. 

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Ya, I like that one. 

Another example?

- Last time the Patriots and Steelers met and the Pats put up over a fifty burger on them, 55-31, with Brady going 23-33 for 432 yards and 4 TDs.

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This last one kind of speaks for itself, don't ya think?  No commentary really necessary.


So, all in all, I'd say the kind of things that bring a tear of joy to my eye are much more real, substantial and meaningful than the stupid hate-fueled rant by George that brought a "tear of joy" to your eye.

Have a nice day.

George1963 wrote:

Guppy is far from the only otherwise reasonable person I know who flat loses his mind when it comes to this stuff.
I swear, "Jerry Rice used stick um so Brady is innocent!!", "Goodell effed up with Ray Rice so Brady is innocent!!",  "Mortenson posted something that wasn't true so Brady is innocent!!"

WTF?


I never said any of those things.

WTF?

What's wrong with you?

I never cited any of those examples in order to support the conclusion that "Brady is innocent".

I cited those instances as examples of inconsistent and disproportionate treatment NE gets as compared to similar situations involving others.  They are examples of the lack of fairness and lack of even-handedness directed towards the Patriots, as compared to similar and comparable situations involving others. 

But I think you're intelligent enough to know the difference.

But yet, right here in this post, you dishonestly - and INTENTIONALLY - mischaracterize my basic point in a lame attempt to discredit me.  Says a lot about you. 

Show me where I said "Brady is innocent", and that I used Jerry Rice, Ray Rice and Chris Mortenson as the basis for that conclusion.  I'll wait.

Oh ya, and add to the above list of Jerry Rice, Ray Rice, and Chris Mortenson, the other ESPN article by that dope Kelly Nagy who worked on her "article" "for three weeks" before ESPN published it, that concluded that the Patriots "tried to introduce an illegal kicking ball into the AFCCG".  This was a new allegation in addition to Mortenson saying 11 out of 12 scrimage balls were "2 psi under spec".  That article was debunked by Adam Schefter within 24 hours.  Um, Ms. Nagy, you may have worked on it for three weeks, but, you dumb broad, No such thing occurred.   Both ESPN stories were untrue.

If you can't see my point, I'll say it s-l-o-w-l-y.  I'm sick and tired of these false reports (just like the FALSE report of filming the Rams practice).  And I'm sick and tired of people treating stories shown to be 100% false as if they are true.  That's why I say people are generally stupid.

......

It was never questioned by me or by Pats fans that Goodell has the authority under the CBA to keep Brady's appeal to himself.  Legally, he can, everyone acknowledges that.  Nobody ever said it wasn't in the CBA.  But that went over your head.  The point was not whether it was in the CBA or not.  The point was, he could have chosen to let it go to an independent person.  He did not.  Although he could have heard the appeals in Bountygate, Ray Rice, and Adrian Peterson, he did not.  He choose to let all those three go to independent arbitrators/judges.  And what happened?  He got overturned and embarrassed on all three.

So now, why is he treating Brady differently?  Why is he making a different decision regarding Brady's appeal?  He's hearing an "appeal" of a punishment ruling that swallowed whole hog the flawed Wells Report that concluded only that Brady was "probably" "generally aware" of "probable" ball deflating activities of some kind or another by 2 equipment guys, and a resulting punishment issued by his first lieutenant Troy Vincent - a punishment that he himself ultimately approved.  We're talking about what constitutes a fair process here, not whether the process was collectively bargained for or not.

Are you kidding me?  What kind of fair appeal process is one where the appeal judge is deciding the appropriateness of basically his own actions and decisions?  What kind of "independent review" is that?  What is he afraid of by letting someone who is actually "independent" hear Tom's appeal?  Like he did in the other three cases?  He doesn't want to look foolish getting overturned again?  Obviously.  Its a Kangaroo Court.  Its a fucking joke is what it is.






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Admin wrote:
the golden boy ain't as shiny as YOU think he is. In fact, the problem that exists, is the difference between what you think and what everyone else thinks.

Not so.  Actually, there is no "problem". 

None exits.

First, the Golden Boy is in fact shiny, and that undeniable truth is based on my first hand observations over a 15 year period.  He's been nothing but a stand up guy, intense competitor, hard worker, relentless preparer both on the field and in film study, class act, leader by example, always respectful to his opponents, and multi-time champion. 

He was never considered "The Chosen One" (like a Peyton Manning), and was never given anything in this league because of who he was.  He started out low as 4th on the depth chart, and by sheer will, determination and drive, worked his way up.  On his own, he earned everything he's gotten.  Not saying that over 15 years, there haven't been a few bumps in the road - there have.  No one is perfect and there are bumps in the road for everyone.  (See Ben Roethesberger's history for example).  Even last generation's "Golden Boy" Paul Hornung was involved in an unfortunate situation (gambling) that got him suspended.  I can easily recall a couple of "Bradyisms" where in my opinion he fucked up. 

But when I look overall at a career over 15 years, the fuck ups are about 2%, and the shiny golden boy moments are about 98%.

So.   Why do I say no "problem" exists?

Because my opinion is not valid or persuasive to you, and truthfully I understand, whether valid or not, that its not relevant to you.  You're going to believe what ever you want to believe.

and...

Same goes for your opinion, and what you perceive to be "what everyone else thinks".  It works the same way for me.  I don't recognize those as valid or persuasive.  But that doesn't really matter because, whether they are valid or not, the fact remains, they are not relevant to me. 


If something is not relevant, it has no effect.  What some guy claims "everyone else thinks" has zero effect on me.  It is of no concern.  Only something to be casually and nonchalantly brushed aside.  Like a piece of dust off my shoulder.


Now, with all of the above being true, what is the end result here? 

The end result for me, that is.  Not for you, not for hater George, and not for anyone else.

The bottom line, end result for me is that I get to enjoy the most recent accomplishment of my team, which was in the end, they were The Last Team Standing.  It was a great, fantastic, glorious accomplishment, fairly earned, and worthy of going down in local sports history as a great memory that will be recounted and re-watched with pleasure and pride (great DVD) for years to come.   

No "problem" exists. 

Truly.

George1963 wrote:Its like people constantly saying they changed the rule on hitting the QB low just for Tom Brady.  Um, no idiots, they actually changed the rule after Carson Palmer's knee was rolled up on by Kemo Von Whats-His-Name from the Steelers, and its called the Carson Palmer Rule.  But, I'll bet the number of people who erroneously think its the Brady Rule actually outnumber the people who know correctly that its the Carson Palmer Rule.



If they made lunging at a QBs illegal after Von Oelhoffen blew up Palmers knee they didn't do it in time to help Brady.
Palmer got hurt in Jan 2006.
Brady got hurt on a near identical legal play in Sept 2008
They put in the new rule in March 2009.

"Carson Palmer Rule"

here's the rule instituted by the NFL in 2006, after Palmer's injury: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him..."

People are just generally stupid.


That's pretty clear.

Ya, it is. 

Pretty fucking self important too.