But BB didn't know?

LRJets wrote:Of course BB knew about Hernandez.
Urban Meyer- Hernandez
Urban Meyer- Belichick

Start seeing a common denominator emerge?

Truth is, BB historically takes on reclamation projects of thugs who are NFL veterans.  Being tight with Urban Meyer gave BB a leg up. 
BTW, his reclamation projects are not all that successful as it seems.

I'll give Randy Moss pt II and ok grade.
Chad Ochocinco??  Door
Albert Haynesworth   Needed two doors
There were others of note.

Welker, admittedly was a coup.  It outweighed any  poor acquisition. Miami was so effin' stooooopid!   Even if there's doubt, they should have moved him out of the division.


But what did the Ochocinco and Haynesworth mistakes cost the Pats?  That is the question.  Not whether they were misses or not, which they were.  Answer:  Nothing, basically.  A mistake that doesn't cost you anything is not really a mistake is it? 

To me Moss was more than just an "OK grade".  They squeezed the most they could out of him, more than any other team did --- for a 4th round pick.  Again, small price.  Big return.  More than "OK".

Why forget Corey Dillon?  Took a disgruntled player not known as a really good guy, and rode him to a Superbowl.  Put that one in the success column.

Aqib Talib is another one.  We'll grade that one "incomplete" so far. 

Adrian Wilson.  BB picked up a 13 year pro.  Reclamation project, or good move that will help the team?  We'll see this year.

Welker = a success as you noted.  Not resigning him = to be determined.


Did BB know about Hernandez?  Know what?  That he had some character issues?  Sure.  That was well known.  He took a shot on him anyway, thinking he could mentor him to straighten up and fly right.  Did he know back when he drafted him what we known now?   That someday he was eventually going to kill someone?  You raised the question LR.  Why don't you guys answer that for us. 


 

 

George1963 wrote:To me Moss was more than just an "OK grade".  They squeezed the most they could out of him, more than any other team did --- for a 4th round pick.  Again, small price.  Big return.  More than "OK".

Why forget Corey Dillon?  Took a disgruntled player not known as a really good guy, and rode him to a Superbowl.  Put that one in the success column.

Again, not without a price.
Dillon, Moss, and Hernandez are all kind of similar. They were guys with problems that BB took a flyer on who were productive for a while and who seemed to have behaved themselves, although there were stories about Moss and Dillon, and  I always thought Light was kind of an overated JAG, he seemed like a good easygoing guy and if he has a problem with you there must be something there. Anyway, they had cleaned up their acts enough in BBs eyes to give them all extensions ranging from big to huge that kind of blew up in his face. It was a 2.9 mil cap hit to get rid of Dillon, 4.75 for Moss, and 12.6 million over two years to cut Hernandez.
That's not really too good.


Dillon helped bring a Lombardi.  That makes his cap hit worth it.  The test is always looking at these things in hindsight.  Ask the question for each.  If you knew then what you know now, would you still do it the same way?  I think the answer with Dillon and Moss is YES, knowing what I know now, I would still do those the same way.  So there are no regrets there.  Apparently you think the cost made it not worth what production the team got from each.   That's fine, you're entitled to that opinion.   I think at this point BB has had enough experience to know that some of these guy will not clean up their act no matter what.  But I think that he thinks he can make them clean up their act just enough to make signing them make sense. 

Hernandez is obviously a COMPLETE disaster.  Probably the worst in franchise history.  There is no other signing I can think of as regretable.  "Blew up in his face"?   Thats the understatement of the year. 


It makes me call to mind this scene from The Godfalther.  Just  substitute BB for Michael Corleone, and Hernandez for Fredo, and you have the same scene and same emotions.  Belichick grabs him and says, "I know it was you Aaron.  You broke my heart."


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LRJets wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

You know how bad this week sucked?  Well this four part picture you posted does not even have Pierce and KG in Nets uniforms.  Add that in.   
 

LRJets wrote:
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Yes the week was pretty bad for us Beantown sports fans.  Who would have ever thought that we would have the "Best record in the American League" Red Sox to fall back on for a wee bit of joy?  LOL.


 

American League
EAST	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	DIFF	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	L10	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	48	33	.593	-	26-15	22-18	417	336	+81	Won 3	6-4	86.3
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	44	36	.550	3.5	22-17	22-19	391	374	+17	Won 1	4-6	41.2
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	42	36	.538	4.5	23-18	19-18	302	307	-5	Lost 2	5-5	25.2
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	41	38	.519	6	23-17	18-21	368	350	+18	Lost 1	5-5	37.2
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	39	39	.500	7.5	22-17	17-22	358	359	-1	Lost 1	7-3	19.2
CENTRAL	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	DIFF	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	L10	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	42	35	.545	-	26-16	16-19	386	315	+71	Lost 3	4-6	75.6
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	40	38	.513	2.5	24-15	16-23	360	347	+13	Lost 1	6-4	29.8
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	36	40	.474	5.5	19-19	17-21	293	287	+6	Lost 1	4-6	18.1
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	35	40	.467	6	20-17	15-23	312	337	-25	Won 1	5-5	7.2
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	32	43	.427	9	17-15	15-28	277	314	-37	Lost 1	4-6	2.5
WEST	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	DIFF	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	L10	[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	46	33	.582	-	22-15	24-18	344	314	+30	Won 2	8-2	69.9
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	46	34	.575	.5	24-12	22-22	374	320	+54	Won 2	5-5	76.8
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	36	43	.456	10	20-23	16-20	368	371	-3	Won 3	6-4	10.3
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	34	45	.430	12	20-20	14-25	283	347	-64	Lost 2	3-7	0.6
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]	30	49	.380	16	16-26	14-23	305	408	-103	Won 1	5-5	0.1

George1963 wrote:Because I'm lazy and don't have the time or desire to research it, I'm wondering if anyone out there can list for me the three most aggregious violations of law committed by Aaron Hernandez while he was at the University of Florida?  I'm talking about violations of law that were so horrendous that either by themselves, or in combination, they screamed out to all NFL teams, "WARNING:  DON'T DRAFT THIS GUY.  HE'S TROUBLE WAITING TO HAPPEN."



I don't know. I'm lazy too. If I had a little energy I might ask the teams that had the best TE in college completely off their board what information they had access to that was being withheld from BB.


That's pretty much a non-response.   "The best TE in college"?  Huh?  The "best TE in college" fell to the 4th round.  What "information" they had access to?  THAT IS THE QUESTION.  What "information" was there?  We need specifics.  Lets list all the red flags one by one so we're not just irresponsibly throwing generalities out there. 

Add to the mix that for three years while he was in the Patriots facilities, he did things pretty much right and raised no red flags. 

Are people supposed to know everything ahead of time, what they later learn in hindsight?  According to you, I guess so.

If you (or anyone) can't answer the fundamental question, "Knew what?", then don't say, "They knew".

George1963 wrote:Well, it's clear that you bought every word of Krafts self-serving bullshit. Just like you did with Welker.
Hernandez was a great pick. There were no red flags. BBs buddy Meyer, coach of the biggest thug program in college football, assured him the kid was ok. Nothing to see here. All the teams that passed on him, including the ones who've said they wouldn't have taken him no matter how far he fell were basing that on nothing at all.
The Pats were duped by master manipulator and criminal genius Aaron Hernandez.
Right.

Gup, just look at the way his first contract was structured. The Pats knew there was a great potential for problems from the get go.


Well, thank you for posting that WSJ article.  Finally, something that gives me some facts.   I see Hernandez' scores on that one page form that 18 teams had.  It looks like he scored high in nearly every category, except "social maturity" which he failed miserably.  Only 18 out of the 32 teams subscribe to that scouting service, but lets assume the Patriots are one of them, and they had this psychological profile, which admittedly "can be subjective and far from fool proof".   The report also says, "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else."  Not bad.  It goes on, "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful."  Again, pretty good.  It further says he got a "9 out of 10" on "Receptivity to Coaching".  BB must have loved that if he saw it.  Under "weaknesses" it says "he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."  That could be the sign of a future problem.  But really, how big a problem?  

So there it is -- assuming the Pats are one of the 18 that subscribe to this service.  I look at that psychological profile, and I see strengths and I see weaknesses in the player.  You have to take it on balance if you are a GM.  If I was the GM I would have some concerns, but I would also think highly of his 9/10 on "receptivity to coaching".   Maybe BB thought so too.  Maybe he thought, "I can coach this kid.  I can keep him under control."  Maybe he thought, this kid is a chance worth taking.  If he doesn't work out, then he doesn't work out.  Next man up.  What's the harm?  I'm sure he never thought this kid would someday commit the worst felony possible. 

George, I don't know if I can agree with you that they knew there was "great potential" for problems.  I will agree that they knew there was "some" potential for problems.  He was a risk, no doubt.  How big a risk is the issue. 

I told you I would condemn the Pats if I was convinced they were negligent or incompetent.   I am convinced that they were somewhat careless in the case of Hernandez.  I am convinced they gambled.  I am convinced they could have gone in a different direction, and taken someone who was not a risk, but maybe not as good on the field.  They gambled and lost.  Shame on them, because they thought they had him sized up.  They did not.  They thought they were gambling on someone who could cause them potential problems, but they did it anyway, thinking that he would mature in their culture, in the pro culture.  They turned out to be mistaken.   Actually, I think they were right, at least initially.  I think he did mature, initially.  Then they gave him the contract.  Instead of earning it by living right, he did the exact opposite.  He regressed.  He went backwards.  His inner self-destructive nature came out.  Totally self destructive. 

You use the terms "master manipulator" and "criminal genius" sarcastically.  Actually, there is some truth to it.  In the end, he did manipulate like a master.  He did fool people.  But I  have no problem, no problem whatsoever, saying shame on the Pats for allowing it to happen.  They gambled.  They lost.  Fans have a right to be upset.  Some will say, and I will join with them in saying,  "Smarten up.  Next time, don't take chances.  Don't gamble on a guy just because he's talented."

George1963 wrote:

Ever hear of the Mackey award?


The Mackey Award is presented to college football's most outstanding tight end.  The award is given to the collegiate tight end who best exemplifies the play, sportsmanship, academics, and community values of NFL Hall of Fame tight end John Mackey.

So Aaron Hernandez was honored in college not only for his play on the field, but for his "sportsmanship"; his "academics"; and last, but not least, his "community values". 

If one were judging what kind of person the young man is, one might think -- at least from earning The John Mackey Award -- that he has some pretty good personal qualities and character traits.