Obvious Opportunities

milani wrote:Kuhn is ranked high on the Ringo radar screen. Like Driver there are fan favorites and TT knows the importance of home town idols.

RingoCStarrQB wrote:$2.5M for Kuhn doesn't seem too too bad. What troubles me the most is the lack of a highly paid running back on the roster. Where is our running back?

Finley is the guy grossly overpaid for sure.

_HD_ wrote:

milani wrote:Kuhn is ranked high on the Ringo radar screen. Like Driver there are fan favorites and TT knows the importance of home town idols.

Yeah--and Ringo is ranked high on the Milani radar screen and I can plainly see the importance of battery life in voice box devices... I get it...

ffaralli wrote:HD,
Only these guys are a problem....and Woodson is gone, Hawk has been readjusted....Pickett will be done in another year.
So that leaves Finley, Williams and possibly Raji.
For all the things he can do, I don't think Kuhn is grossly overpaid. Vontae Leach is just a better blocker, that's all. And maybe Crosby, after the year he had. Everyone else seems to be in line. Just my two cents.

FF

Kuhn, IMO IS grossly overpaid. yes--he's only at $2.5M overall--but he's not in a premium position in terms of pay--or for utilization in the Pack's O schemes. I was once taught--never look at the dollars--look at the percentages... In that context--Kuhn is overpaid by at least a factor of 2. That's $1.25M that could be used on another player that will have to be foresaken. Furthermore Kuhn has no leverage to demand anything more because, at the 4th highest rate of pay EVER for a fullback--he KNOWS he's overpaid. Wasted opportunity... People like him in GB because he looks just like the guy who put their muffler on the week before at CarX. Nobody feels their little ego's threatened by him--and so get out the checkbook to keep him around for awhile... You can never run into too many people like that in GB, WI right?

One more year for McCarthy--and I'd start cleaning house... After Rodgers--it could be another 30 years before they sniff another real QB. You can only roast Duck--when you make the feathers fly, eh? This complacency needs to stop.

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:$2.5M for Kuhn doesn't seem too too bad. What troubles me the most is the lack of a highly paid running back on the roster. Where is our running back?

Finley is the guy grossly overpaid for sure.

For better or worse, I'm not sure RB is high on TT's list of priorities. It appears he's willing to spend money on key components the passing game and subsist on low budget players to carry the rock.

However, to get back to HD's initial point, I have to say Kuhn is overpaid. Green, Starks, Saine, and Harris are all in the $550-700K range. I don't see that Kuhn's value is any higher than anyone in that group, if at all.

The other player I think is grossly overpaid is Williams and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned him. He was fantastic in 2010 but he never fully recovered from his shoulder injury in 2011. He made a slight uptick in 2012 but frankly, he's been a huge disappointment and hardly worthy of his huge salary, IMHO.

Finally, what is your source for that table, HD? I tried to find it online and came up with the below link. The values are close but not exactly the same. Interesting.

[url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap-hit/

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:$2.5M for Kuhn doesn't seem too too bad. What troubles me the most is the lack of a highly paid running back on the roster. Where is our running back?

Finley is the guy grossly overpaid for sure.

For better or worse, I'm not sure RB is high on TT's list of priorities. It appears he's willing to spend money on key components the passing game and subsist on low budget players to carry the rock.

However, to get back to HD's initial point, I have to say Kuhn is overpaid. Green, Starks, Saine, and Harris are all in the $550-700K range. I don't see that Kuhn's value is any higher than anyone in that group, if at all.

The other player I think is grossly overpaid is Williams and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned him. He was fantastic in 2010 but he never fully recovered from his shoulder injury in 2011. He made a slight uptick in 2012 but frankly, he's been a huge disappointment and hardly worthy of his huge salary, IMHO.

Finally, what is your source for that table, HD? I tried to find it online and came up with the below link. The values are close but not exactly the same. Interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]

I'm not even sure, Duck... I'm sure I just googled *Packers 2013 salary cap list* or something like that...

_HD_ wrote:

ffaralli wrote:HD,
Only these guys are a problem....and Woodson is gone, Hawk has been readjusted....Pickett will be done in another year.
So that leaves Finley, Williams and possibly Raji.
For all the things he can do, I don't think Kuhn is grossly overpaid. Vontae Leach is just a better blocker, that's all. And maybe Crosby, after the year he had. Everyone else seems to be in line. Just my two cents.

FF

The fact that Finley hasn't been restructured is just plain lost opportunity on the GM's part. There's nothing worse in my book. Every fucking signal you look for was present to suggest Finley was ripe for the pickings--and now the moment may have passed... -3 for the albino...

Kuhn, IMO IS grossly overpaid. yes--he's only at $2.5M overall--but he's not in a premium position in terms of pay--or for utilization in the Pack's O schemes. I was once taught--never look at the dollars--look at the percentages... In that context--Kuhn is overpaid by at least a factor of 2. That's $1.25M that could be used on another player that will have to be foresaken. Furthermore Kuhn has no leverage to demand anything more because, at the 4th highest rate of pay EVER for a fullback--he KNOWS he's overpaid. Wasted opportunity... People like him in GB because he looks just like the guy who put their muffler on the week before at CarX. Nobody feels their little ego's threatened by him--and so get out the checkbook to keep him around for awhile... You can never run into too many people like that in GB, WI right?

Crosby is just fucking mind-boggling. I would have already cut him purely to cut the possibility of his stench from further polluting my prospects for winning. Forget about isolating on last year--his career percentage is no better than abysmal. Why even go into camp with a message that performance like this is acceptable. The 9ers just cut loose a HOF kicker for less... Ridiculous.

Fatty bristles at the suggestion that his squad is *soft* Why? Because HE is fucking soft--it hits home on his flabby ass. Nut up and cut loose those who no longer represent a net add and look elsewhere. Capers, for example, is a programmatic failure of pattern. That never changes. By keeping those around who contribute to failure--he only sends the message that failure is tolerated. As GM--I'd have already had a sit down with him and make clear that more than one/done is expected from him next season or he can be the next to pack his bags and head west to the land of purple. Didn't happen though. Why? Because the albino has an equally weak supervisor (Murphy) who is also content to just have a dog in the hunt--when you should never be satisfied unless your dog makes the kill... Bottom line: They've all become fucking soft since winning the superbowl. I mean--look at this garfunkle geek-fuck with his *pro NFL scout* neck mount double douche kit. Need I say more? They are letting the opportunity to build a dynasty slip away...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

One more year for McCarthy--and I'd start cleaning house... After Rodgers--it could be another 30 years before they sniff another real QB. You can only roast Duck--when you make the feathers fly, eh? This complacency needs to stop.

_HD_ wrote:

ffaralli wrote:HD,
Only these guys are a problem....and Woodson is gone, Hawk has been readjusted....Pickett will be done in another year.
So that leaves Finley, Williams and possibly Raji.
For all the things he can do, I don't think Kuhn is grossly overpaid. Vontae Leach is just a better blocker, that's all. And maybe Crosby, after the year he had. Everyone else seems to be in line. Just my two cents.

FF

The fact that Finley hasn't been restructured is just plain lost opportunity on the GM's part. There's nothing worse in my book. Every fucking signal you look for was present to suggest Finley was ripe for the pickings--and now the moment may have passed... -3 for the albino...

Kuhn, IMO IS grossly overpaid. yes--he's only at $2.5M overall--but he's not in a premium position in terms of pay--or for utilization in the Pack's O schemes. I was once taught--never look at the dollars--look at the percentages... In that context--Kuhn is overpaid by at least a factor of 2. That's $1.25M that could be used on another player that will have to be foresaken. Furthermore Kuhn has no leverage to demand anything more because, at the 4th highest rate of pay EVER for a fullback--he KNOWS he's overpaid. Wasted opportunity... People like him in GB because he looks just like the guy who put their muffler on the week before at CarX. Nobody feels their little ego's threatened by him--and so get out the checkbook to keep him around for awhile... You can never run into too many people like that in GB, WI right?

Crosby is just fucking mind-boggling. I would have already cut him purely to cut the possibility of his stench from further polluting my prospects for winning. Forget about isolating on last year--his career percentage is no better than abysmal. Why even go into camp with a message that performance like this is acceptable. The 9ers just cut loose a HOF kicker for less... Ridiculous.

Fatty bristles at the suggestion that his squad is *soft* Why? Because HE is fucking soft--it hits home on his flabby ass. Nut up and cut loose those who no longer represent a net add and look elsewhere. Capers, for example, is a programmatic failure of pattern. That never changes. By keeping those around who contribute to failure--he only sends the message that failure is tolerated. As GM--I'd have already had a sit down with him and make clear that more than one/done is expected from him next season or he can be the next to pack his bags and head west to the land of purple. Didn't happen though. Why? Because the albino has an equally weak supervisor (Murphy) who is also content to just have a dog in the hunt--when you should never be satisfied unless your dog makes the kill... Bottom line: They've all become fucking soft since winning the superbowl. I mean--look at this garfunkle geek-fuck with his *pro NFL scout* neck mount double douche kit. Need I say more? They are letting the opportunity to build a dynasty slip away...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

One more year for McCarthy--and I'd start cleaning house... After Rodgers--it could be another 30 years before they sniff another real QB. You can only roast Duck--when you make the feathers fly, eh? This complacency needs to stop.

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:$2.5M for Kuhn doesn't seem too too bad. What troubles me the most is the lack of a highly paid running back on the roster. Where is our running back?

Finley is the guy grossly overpaid for sure.

For better or worse, I'm not sure RB is high on TT's list of priorities. It appears he's willing to spend money on key components the passing game and subsist on low budget players to carry the rock.

However, to get back to HD's initial point, I have to say Kuhn is overpaid. Green, Starks, Saine, and Harris are all in the $550-700K range. I don't see that Kuhn's value is any higher than anyone in that group, if at all.

The other player I think is grossly overpaid is Williams and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned him. He was fantastic in 2010 but he never fully recovered from his shoulder injury in 2011. He made a slight uptick in 2012 but frankly, he's been a huge disappointment and hardly worthy of his huge salary, IMHO.

Finally, what is your source for that table, HD? I tried to find it online and came up with the below link. The values are close but not exactly the same. Interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]

I'm not even sure, Duck... I'm sure I just googled *Packers 2013 salary cap list* or something like that...

Bottom line is that TT has been a fine asset to the organization. True, he made some critical mistakes in his first years with the team. But he has shown maturity. And his financial prowess is an ever present skill that only a chosen few have. He's kept the franchise going at a time when the salary cap and free agent structure has gone haywire in the NFL. And he certainly has been an upgrade over his predecessor when it comes to managing the business.

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

ffaralli wrote:HD,
Only these guys are a problem....and Woodson is gone, Hawk has been readjusted....Pickett will be done in another year.
So that leaves Finley, Williams and possibly Raji.
For all the things he can do, I don't think Kuhn is grossly overpaid. Vontae Leach is just a better blocker, that's all. And maybe Crosby, after the year he had. Everyone else seems to be in line. Just my two cents.

FF

The fact that Finley hasn't been restructured is just plain lost opportunity on the GM's part. There's nothing worse in my book. Every fucking signal you look for was present to suggest Finley was ripe for the pickings--and now the moment may have passed... -3 for the albino...

Kuhn, IMO IS grossly overpaid. yes--he's only at $2.5M overall--but he's not in a premium position in terms of pay--or for utilization in the Pack's O schemes. I was once taught--never look at the dollars--look at the percentages... In that context--Kuhn is overpaid by at least a factor of 2. That's $1.25M that could be used on another player that will have to be foresaken. Furthermore Kuhn has no leverage to demand anything more because, at the 4th highest rate of pay EVER for a fullback--he KNOWS he's overpaid. Wasted opportunity... People like him in GB because he looks just like the guy who put their muffler on the week before at CarX. Nobody feels their little ego's threatened by him--and so get out the checkbook to keep him around for awhile... You can never run into too many people like that in GB, WI right?

Crosby is just fucking mind-boggling. I would have already cut him purely to cut the possibility of his stench from further polluting my prospects for winning. Forget about isolating on last year--his career percentage is no better than abysmal. Why even go into camp with a message that performance like this is acceptable. The 9ers just cut loose a HOF kicker for less... Ridiculous.

Fatty bristles at the suggestion that his squad is *soft* Why? Because HE is fucking soft--it hits home on his flabby ass. Nut up and cut loose those who no longer represent a net add and look elsewhere. Capers, for example, is a programmatic failure of pattern. That never changes. By keeping those around who contribute to failure--he only sends the message that failure is tolerated. As GM--I'd have already had a sit down with him and make clear that more than one/done is expected from him next season or he can be the next to pack his bags and head west to the land of purple. Didn't happen though. Why? Because the albino has an equally weak supervisor (Murphy) who is also content to just have a dog in the hunt--when you should never be satisfied unless your dog makes the kill... Bottom line: They've all become fucking soft since winning the superbowl. I mean--look at this garfunkle geek-fuck with his *pro NFL scout* neck mount double douche kit. Need I say more? They are letting the opportunity to build a dynasty slip away...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

One more year for McCarthy--and I'd start cleaning house... After Rodgers--it could be another 30 years before they sniff another real QB. You can only roast Duck--when you make the feathers fly, eh? This complacency needs to stop.

I don't think it's possible to "build a dynasty" anymore, HD. The system is designed to prevent it. Success is punished in every imaginable way... not only do the best teams draft last but their players are showcased and targeted in free agency and their core players will demand (and usually get) higher salaries when they renegotiate.

Most teams, if they're lucky, get a brief Super Bowl "window", after which it's usually a gut-and-rebuild. It's becoming clearer to me now that the best formula for putting forth a strong team is to have an emerging underpaid but talented young quarterback, thus enabling the team to allocate more financial resources to other key positions. This of course makes me worry when Rodgers' salary balloons.

To TT's credit, he's been able to get significant production from the bottom end of his roster. The Packers' depth has in many ways been it's greatest asset, keeping it competitive in 2010 and 2012 when injuries ravaged many starters. I still find it unbelievable that they ran the table the way they did in 2010! The fact that TT has gotten so much value out of his bargain basement pick ups has also kept us competitive through times during which many other teams might have had to gut-and-rebuild.

Have the Packers gone soft? Well, that's another issue and there is certainly a lot of evidence to support that notion. I'm inclined to agree.

However, I don't think they're pissing away a dynasty; in fact I'm happy the team has been as successful as it's been for so long.

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

ffaralli wrote:HD,
Only these guys are a problem....and Woodson is gone, Hawk has been readjusted....Pickett will be done in another year.
So that leaves Finley, Williams and possibly Raji.
For all the things he can do, I don't think Kuhn is grossly overpaid. Vontae Leach is just a better blocker, that's all. And maybe Crosby, after the year he had. Everyone else seems to be in line. Just my two cents.

FF

The fact that Finley hasn't been restructured is just plain lost opportunity on the GM's part. There's nothing worse in my book. Every fucking signal you look for was present to suggest Finley was ripe for the pickings--and now the moment may have passed... -3 for the albino...

Kuhn, IMO IS grossly overpaid. yes--he's only at $2.5M overall--but he's not in a premium position in terms of pay--or for utilization in the Pack's O schemes. I was once taught--never look at the dollars--look at the percentages... In that context--Kuhn is overpaid by at least a factor of 2. That's $1.25M that could be used on another player that will have to be foresaken. Furthermore Kuhn has no leverage to demand anything more because, at the 4th highest rate of pay EVER for a fullback--he KNOWS he's overpaid. Wasted opportunity... People like him in GB because he looks just like the guy who put their muffler on the week before at CarX. Nobody feels their little ego's threatened by him--and so get out the checkbook to keep him around for awhile... You can never run into too many people like that in GB, WI right?

Crosby is just fucking mind-boggling. I would have already cut him purely to cut the possibility of his stench from further polluting my prospects for winning. Forget about isolating on last year--his career percentage is no better than abysmal. Why even go into camp with a message that performance like this is acceptable. The 9ers just cut loose a HOF kicker for less... Ridiculous.

Fatty bristles at the suggestion that his squad is *soft* Why? Because HE is fucking soft--it hits home on his flabby ass. Nut up and cut loose those who no longer represent a net add and look elsewhere. Capers, for example, is a programmatic failure of pattern. That never changes. By keeping those around who contribute to failure--he only sends the message that failure is tolerated. As GM--I'd have already had a sit down with him and make clear that more than one/done is expected from him next season or he can be the next to pack his bags and head west to the land of purple. Didn't happen though. Why? Because the albino has an equally weak supervisor (Murphy) who is also content to just have a dog in the hunt--when you should never be satisfied unless your dog makes the kill... Bottom line: They've all become fucking soft since winning the superbowl. I mean--look at this garfunkle geek-fuck with his *pro NFL scout* neck mount double douche kit. Need I say more? They are letting the opportunity to build a dynasty slip away...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

One more year for McCarthy--and I'd start cleaning house... After Rodgers--it could be another 30 years before they sniff another real QB. You can only roast Duck--when you make the feathers fly, eh? This complacency needs to stop.

I don't think it's possible to "build a dynasty" anymore, HD. The system is designed to prevent it. Success is punished in every imaginable way... not only do the best teams draft last but their players are showcased and targeted in free agency and their core players will demand (and usually get) higher salaries when they renegotiate.

Most teams, if they're lucky, get a brief Super Bowl "window", after which it's usually a gut-and-rebuild. It's becoming clearer to me now that the best formula for putting forth a strong team is to have an emerging underpaid but talented young quarterback, thus enabling the team to allocate more financial resources to other key positions. This of course makes me worry when Rodgers' salary balloons.

To TT's credit, he's been able to get significant production from the bottom end of his roster. The Packers' depth has in many ways been it's greatest asset, keeping it competitive in 2010 and 2012 when injuries ravaged many starters. I still find it unbelievable that they ran the table the way they did in 2010! The fact that TT has gotten so much value out of his bargain basement pick ups has also kept us competitive through times during which many other teams might have had to gut-and-rebuild.

Have the Packers gone soft? Well, that's another issue and there is certainly a lot of evidence to support that notion. I'm inclined to agree.

However, I don't think they're pissing away a dynasty; in fact I'm happy the team has been as successful as it's been for so long.

I disagree completely, Duck... More than ever--the game is played not on the field--but in the GM suite. The players/coaches on the field are essentially robots who, like with Playstation, have various strength numbers factored in to the various elements of their game. The trick is to allocate your limited resources in the most fortuitious possible manner to assemble a roster with the highest possible strength numbers in the most vital roles/combinations... Every extra $ you spend a player A is unavailable for use in upgrading Role B. Opportunity Cost. It's really quite simple. There are no rigidly defined edicts that we are, for example, purely a draft/develop team...you take each season and from all available resources put together a squad that maximizes your strength numbers...

Guess who follows this strategy? The New England Patriots. Guess what one single team is the most successful over the past decade? The New England Patriots. Why? Two words: Asset Allocation. Most every dollar they put into production carries water from the well. The one-trick albino pony in GB is afraid to be proactive enough to follow this approach--too worried about feelings and politics and a myriad of other bullshit that in the end puts a weaker squad on the field than his allocated fistful of dollars should buy him... On a perennial basis--there are 3-4 things consistently that could have been done to trim the fat out of his resource budget that could otherwise be allocated to muscle--and yet he sits back and jerks himself a goodnight albino frostee, instead...

I've provided many, many examples of opportunities that are left unexercized. Just Donald Driver and the Cap balance from 2011 that was left unused--thus lost are but two examples. A savvy, aggressive negotiator could pluck another 10M/year in cap space out of that roster--and, if you know talent when you see it to spend it on--that's what makes you the New England Patriots...

milani wrote:

_HD_ wrote:

duck wrote:

RingoCStarrQB wrote:$2.5M for Kuhn doesn't seem too too bad. What troubles me the most is the lack of a highly paid running back on the roster. Where is our running back?

Finley is the guy grossly overpaid for sure.

For better or worse, I'm not sure RB is high on TT's list of priorities. It appears he's willing to spend money on key components the passing game and subsist on low budget players to carry the rock.

However, to get back to HD's initial point, I have to say Kuhn is overpaid. Green, Starks, Saine, and Harris are all in the $550-700K range. I don't see that Kuhn's value is any higher than anyone in that group, if at all.

The other player I think is grossly overpaid is Williams and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned him. He was fantastic in 2010 but he never fully recovered from his shoulder injury in 2011. He made a slight uptick in 2012 but frankly, he's been a huge disappointment and hardly worthy of his huge salary, IMHO.

Finally, what is your source for that table, HD? I tried to find it online and came up with the below link. The values are close but not exactly the same. Interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]

I'm not even sure, Duck... I'm sure I just googled *Packers 2013 salary cap list* or something like that...

Bottom line is that TT has been a fine asset to the organization. True, he made some critical mistakes in his first years with the team. But he has shown maturity. And his financial prowess is an ever present skill that only a chosen few have. He's kept the franchise going at a time when the salary cap and free agent structure has gone haywire in the NFL. And he certainly has been an upgrade over his predecessor when it comes to managing the business.

Just curious then, Milani... how come his predecessor's image is still in your profile picture?