Why isn't Donald Driver playing ?

by Guest Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:09 pm

JhnK307 wrote:???

Because they want him to go away next year...

by milani Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:54 pm

JhnK307 wrote:???

Great question.. I've asked the same. I know they are trying to get the ball to Cobb as much as possible because of his breakaway speed. But with injuries to guys like Jennings and Finley the opportunity is still there. He caught the TD against the Bears and the last pass to get us in FG range in Indy. But when he is on the field his number is just not getting called. This might be a question for Rodgers. It may be the route or spot he is positioned on the formation.

ARod is calling Nelson and Jones first when going down the field. Driver is like # 4 or 5 in every progression. I would think the need to go to him would come sometime. I'd like to see him get some balls just so the defense has one more weapon to worry about like last season.

by throttleplate Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:25 pm

not playing because his dance moves are now better than his football moves

by duck Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:41 am

milani wrote:
JhnK307 wrote:???

Great question.. I've asked the same. I know they are trying to get the ball to Cobb as much as possible because of his breakaway speed. But with injuries to guys like Jennings and Finley the opportunity is still there. He caught the TD against the Bears and the last pass to get us in FG range in Indy. But when he is on the field his number is just not getting called. This might be a question for Rodgers. It may be the route or spot he is positioned on the formation.

ARod is calling Nelson and Jones first when going down the field. Driver is like # 4 or 5 in every progression. I would think the need to go to him would come sometime. I'd like to see him get some balls just so the defense has one more weapon to worry about like last season.

The reason Donald Driver isn't getting more balls thrown his way is obvious. He's old. He seldom gets separation and he doesn't do as much with with the ball in his hands as he used to. Same deal with HD's hero, Mr. Moss. It's no wonder there are over 100 receivers in the league statistically out-performing these two washed up players.

by Guest Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:34 am

duck wrote:
milani wrote:
JhnK307 wrote:???

Great question.. I've asked the same. I know they are trying to get the ball to Cobb as much as possible because of his breakaway speed. But with injuries to guys like Jennings and Finley the opportunity is still there. He caught the TD against the Bears and the last pass to get us in FG range in Indy. But when he is on the field his number is just not getting called. This might be a question for Rodgers. It may be the route or spot he is positioned on the formation.

ARod is calling Nelson and Jones first when going down the field. Driver is like # 4 or 5 in every progression. I would think the need to go to him would come sometime. I'd like to see him get some balls just so the defense has one more weapon to worry about like last season.

The reason Donald Driver isn't getting more balls thrown his way is obvious. He's old. He seldom gets separation and he doesn't do as much with with the ball in his hands as he used to. Same deal with HD's hero, Mr. Moss. It's no wonder there are over 100 receivers in the league statistically out-performing these two washed up players.

Very good, Duck... You've fallen in very nicely with the conclusion the team has packaged and sold to you. Wink

In reality, Driver has had the ball thrown to him, what--a whopping 4-5 times this season? It's amazing you even attempt to draw the conclusion you do with that little knowledgebase to draw from, eh?

No, my friend...Driver's lack of production is all about opportunity... He's never in the game in deference to the younger players who have an upside in the organization. He easily could still be out there in his familiar position in the slot--and still making plays--if only the ball were thrown to him. The fact that the team obviously doesn't place Driver in the game plan reaffirms what was discussed in the off-season-- It was a poor business decision by the B-level GM to allocate those resources to a high-priced asset that they never even ever wheel out on the production floor and plug in...

Bottom line: They only got half the equation right. The deference should be given in playing time to the younger players...but they fucked up on the back half of that equation--the if we're not going to use him--why should we pay him and why should we keep him at the expense of another young player who could have potential to develop...part... It's TT's weakness. He did it with KGB...he did it with Al Harris...and now with Driver... You separate business and pleasure for a reason. Business decisions should rightfully be made exclusive of any personal/emotional considerations. TT can't do it because his business IS his pleasure. These players ARE his family... He has no other outlet to exercise his personal humanity. Wink

There are worse failings to have... Cool

by duck Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:52 pm

_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:
milani wrote:
JhnK307 wrote:???

Great question.. I've asked the same. I know they are trying to get the ball to Cobb as much as possible because of his breakaway speed. But with injuries to guys like Jennings and Finley the opportunity is still there. He caught the TD against the Bears and the last pass to get us in FG range in Indy. But when he is on the field his number is just not getting called. This might be a question for Rodgers. It may be the route or spot he is positioned on the formation.

ARod is calling Nelson and Jones first when going down the field. Driver is like # 4 or 5 in every progression. I would think the need to go to him would come sometime. I'd like to see him get some balls just so the defense has one more weapon to worry about like last season.

The reason Donald Driver isn't getting more balls thrown his way is obvious. He's old. He seldom gets separation and he doesn't do as much with with the ball in his hands as he used to. Same deal with HD's hero, Mr. Moss. It's no wonder there are over 100 receivers in the league statistically out-performing these two washed up players.

Very good, Duck... You've fallen in very nicely with the conclusion the team has packaged and sold to you. In reality, Driver has had the ball thrown to him, what--a whopping 4-5 times this season? It's amazing you even attempt to draw the conclusion you do with that little knowledgebase to draw from, eh?

No, my friend...Driver's lack of production is all about opportunity... He's never in the game in deference to the younger players who have an upside in the organization. He easily could still be out there in his familiar position in the slot--and still making plays--if only the ball were thrown to him. The fact that the team obviously doesn't place Driver in the game plan reaffirms what was discussed in the off-season-- It was a poor business decision by the B-level GM to allocate those resources to a high-priced asset that they never even ever wheel out on the production floor and plug in...

Bottom line: They only got half the equation right. The deference should be given in playing time to the younger players...but they fucked up on the back half of that equation--the if we're not going to use him--why should we pay him and why should we keep him at the expense of another young player who could have potential to develop...part... It's TT's weakness. He did it with KGB...he did it with Al Harris...and now with Driver... You separate business and pleasure for a reason. Business decisions should rightfully be made exclusive of any personal/emotional considerations. TT can't do it because his business IS his pleasure. These players ARE his family... He has no other outlet to exercise his personal humanity.

There are worse failings to have...

HD, you are correct that Driver is in the game less than he has been in the past... and that obviously creates fewer opportunities for him. However, my contention is that even when he is in the game, you can see his skills have diminished. It's a little bit of both.

Plus, if he was kicking ass in practice and constantly showing he could get better separation than our other receivers, you know perfectly well he'd be getting more playing time. The sad reality is that the sunset is fading upon this fan favorite.

At least we are in total agreement that the decision to resign Driver was a stupid blunder on TT's part.

by JnC4GB Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:29 pm

That Driver should've been cut to make roster space to develop a project is an arguable point. That Boykin is on the roster in that developmental role at least somewhat negates that concern.

There is no argument that Driver's skills have diminished.

But a "stupid blunder" to keep him?
No.
As I've said before, while Driver still has the skills to perform adequately if given the opportunity (as HD pointed out) he's worth having around as an old spare tire in the trunk.
Unlike a waiver wire pick up or a knees quivering rookie, should he be called on to step in due to injuries at WR at a critical time the man will be worth his weight in gold. He knows the system backwards, forwards, and upside down. Call any audible you want and he will perform the correct assignment 10 out of 10 times. That has VALUE.
Just like having that old spare in your trunk.

by Guest Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:49 pm

JnC4GB wrote:That Driver should've been cut to make roster space to develop a project is an arguable point. That Boykin is on the roster in that developmental role at least somewhat negates that concern.

There is no argument that Driver's skills have diminished.

But a "stupid blunder" to keep him?
No.
As I've said before, while Driver still has the skills to perform adequately if given the opportunity (as HD pointed out) he's worth having around as an old spare tire in the trunk.
Unlike a waiver wire pick up or a knees quivering rookie, should he be called on to step in due to injuries at WR at a critical time the man will be worth his weight in gold. He knows the system backwards, forwards, and upside down. Call any audible you want and he will perform the correct assignment 10 out of 10 times. That has VALUE.
Just like having that old spare in your trunk.

As I've profiled before--what you describe does hold value--true...however, and this is the primary point, it does NOT represent value given what it is costing the team financially and in terms of opportunity cost... If Driver was making 550K and there were no roster limitations--you'd be absolutely right. Given the reality that that's not the case--I'm sorry to say that we've had to come to the regrettable decision to return you to the mailroom and give Ann B. Davis her chance to upgrade your former role and make hay while standing in the sun... Very Happy

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by duck Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:23 pm

HD is right on this, JnC, and he summed it up well. As you point out, Driver does have value (like an emergency spare tire, as you suggested)... but that value is just not worth the contract he received for it.

by Guest Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:38 pm

duck wrote:HD is right on this, JnC, and he summed it up well. As you point out, Driver does have value (like an emergency spare tire, as you suggested)... but that value is just not worth the contract he received for it.

Any time you pay more for the cost of an insurance policy then it cost you to buy whatever it covers to begin with, or what it would cost you to now replace it--then that's a pretty good indication that the time has come to find a new Insurance agent...

by JnC4GB Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:53 pm

_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:HD is right on this, JnC, and he summed it up well. As you point out, Driver does have value (like an emergency spare tire, as you suggested)... but that value is just not worth the contract he received for it.

Any time you pay more for the cost of an insurance policy then it cost you to buy whatever it covers to begin with, or what it would cost you to now replace it--then that's a pretty good indication that the time has come to find a new Insurance agent...

Well, unlike you two little Moneyball wizards, I don't presume to pretend to know the cost/benefit analysis breakdown of keeping or not keeping Driver as an insurance policy.
I only know what I stated before: Come our first playoff game, if suddenly 2 of our top 4 WRs go down I'll be damn happy Ted Thompson kept Driver on the roster.
The same way I'm happy Giant's manager Bruce Bochy decided to put Tim Lincecum on the playoff roster.

by Guest Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:31 pm

JnC4GB wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
duck wrote:HD is right on this, JnC, and he summed it up well. As you point out, Driver does have value (like an emergency spare tire, as you suggested)... but that value is just not worth the contract he received for it.

Any time you pay more for the cost of an insurance policy then it cost you to buy whatever it covers to begin with, or what it would cost you to now replace it--then that's a pretty good indication that the time has come to find a new Insurance agent...

Well, unlike you two little Moneyball wizards, I don't presume to pretend to know the cost/benefit analysis breakdown of keeping or not keeping Driver as an insurance policy.
I only know what I stated before: Come our first playoff game, if suddenly 2 of our top 4 WRs go down I'll be damn happy Ted Thompson kept Driver on the roster.
The same way I'm happy Giant's manager Bruce Bochy decided to put Tim Lincecum on the playoff roster.

Yup...and if the dish runs away with the spoon and Cinderella, by chance, turns into one of her hag-fuck step-sisters...you'll be damn happy you kept this beauty in the stable to shag like a madman on a cold winter's night, eh?...but, can you afford to keep the bitch in Cheetos while you find out, Flex? That's the race you run... Laughing

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a candid shot of one of JnC's girls depicted here happily washing his Dodge Caravan for sexual favors. (archive photo)

by milani Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:11 pm

It's TT's weakness

Actually, it is one of his strengths. I have maligned TT for many things but this is not one of them. I praise him for this. He listened to us finally on a number of occasions. A player may be used but not used up.

JnC is right in that the time will come this year when he will be needed. And maybe sooner than later.

Remember he was our only player who showed up and performed in last year's debacle in January and that was only 9 months ago. You don't erode that fast when you can make diving catches at 37. When teams decide to take out Jennings and Nelson this guy will be open down the field.

by duck Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:43 pm

milani wrote:It's TT's weakness

Actually, it is one of his strengths. I have maligned TT for many things but this is not one of them. I praise him for this. He listened to us finally on a number of occasions. A player may be used but not used up.

JnC is right in that the time will come this year when he will be needed. And maybe sooner than later.

Remember he was our only player who showed up and performed in last year's debacle in January and that was only 9 months ago. You don't erode that fast when you can make diving catches at 37. When teams decide to take out Jennings and Nelson this guy will be open down the field.

Milani, Milani, Milani... Nobody is disputing the fact that Driver, even though he's declined, still has some tread on his tires. He's in amazing shape for 37!

However, you didn't address the issue of cost. That's what it's all about in the salary cap era. Sure, in the hypothetical scenario you and JnC put forth, if we're in a tight playoff game and Nelson and Jones go down, having Driver would be a Godsend. However, what you're failing to consider is an injury in another position. What would happen, hypothetically, if we were to lose two defensive backs in that playoff game... and the replacement we had for them was grossly inferior because TT had too much money tied up in Driver that he couldn't allocate more money to getting a quality back up at the DB position??

You see, it's all connected. You overpay one guy and you have less to spend on the rest of your roster.

Why is this so complicated? It's a simple concept and doesn't even require any higher math. Yet most fans bitch and moan when their team's GM unloads an aging veteran because his price tag was too high.

We all love Driver but there is no room for sentimentality in this. It's a friggin business.

by JnC4GB Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:14 pm

"what you're failing to consider is an injury in another position. What would happen, hypothetically, if we were to lose two defensive backs in that playoff game... and the replacement we had for them was grossly inferior because TT had too much money tied up in Driver that he couldn't allocate more money to getting a quality back up at the DB position?"

Heeey, an actual, thoughtful counter-response! WTG Duck! Unlike HD (who continues his sorrowful batting slump) you've really been picking up your game lately.

As I said, and meant, before I don't presume to know the most effective way to balance the roster...and neither do you. That said, your point is 100% legit --if it were true. Is it true? How the fuck would I know? The only realistic thing we can do as fans is perform our amateur post-season analysis of how the season played out and point fingers using our 20/20 hindsight.
As for your specific example, our depth this year at DB is looking MUCH better than it has in AGES.
Bottom line, Thompson felt this move was worth the risk and expense.
Hasn't he earned the benefit of the doubt?

by duck Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:47 pm

JnC4GB wrote:"what you're failing to consider is an injury in another position. What would happen, hypothetically, if we were to lose two defensive backs in that playoff game... and the replacement we had for them was grossly inferior because TT had too much money tied up in Driver that he couldn't allocate more money to getting a quality back up at the DB position?"

Heeey, an actual, thoughtful counter-response! WTG Duck! Unlike HD (who continues his sorrowful batting slump) you've really been picking up your game lately.

As I said, and meant, before I don't presume to know the most effective way to balance the roster...and neither do you. That said, your point is 100% legit --if it were true. Is it true? How the fuck would I know? The only realistic thing we can do as fans is perform our amateur post-season analysis of how the season played out and point fingers using our 20/20 hindsight.
As for your specific example, our depth this year at DB is looking MUCH better than it has in AGES.
Bottom line, Thompson felt this move was worth the risk and expense.
Hasn't he earned the benefit of the doubt?

Thanks, JnC. Well, TT surely knows more about his business than I do but it's a fan's job to second guess the coach and GM. That's why we're here isn't it? Very Happy

I still disagree with his Driver move and think it was motivated partially by PR reasons and partially to reward Driver for being such a good "company guy" all these years. Perhaps there is some lasting intangible value in that if it gains "buy in" and loyalty among the other players. However, it seems like a poor business decision to me.

Regarding our DBs, yeah, I love these young guys! When we get House back this is going to be a strong group, especially as they get experience in Capers' system.

by Guest Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:07 pm

JnC4GB wrote:"what you're failing to consider is an injury in another position. What would happen, hypothetically, if we were to lose two defensive backs in that playoff game... and the replacement we had for them was grossly inferior because TT had too much money tied up in Driver that he couldn't allocate more money to getting a quality back up at the DB position?"

Heeey, an actual, thoughtful counter-response! WTG Duck! Unlike HD (who continues his sorrowful batting slump) you've really been picking up your game lately.

As I said, and meant, before I don't presume to know the most effective way to balance the roster...and neither do you. That said, your point is 100% legit --if it were true. Is it true? How the fuck would I know? The only realistic thing we can do as fans is perform our amateur post-season analysis of how the season played out and point fingers using our 20/20 hindsight.
As for your specific example, our depth this year at DB is looking MUCH better than it has in AGES.
Bottom line, Thompson felt this move was worth the risk and expense.
Hasn't he earned the benefit of the doubt?

LOL! Translation: I spung from my ass about the Packers the same way I do about politics and probably everything else--idealistically--with no concept, consideration or clue relative to the feasibility, practicality or cost to actually implementing what I blather on about... I'm just a fan, after all, in all of it... I never have to drop the dime--so never concern myself with any of that--I'll leave that to the 49%ers to worry about... Laughing

by JnC4GB Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:24 pm

_HD_ wrote:
LOL! Translation: I spung from my ass about the Packers the same way I do about politics and probably everything else--idealisticly--with no concept, consideration or clue relative to the feasibility, practicality or cost to actually implementing what I blather on about... I'm just a fan, after all, in all of it... I never have to drop the dime--so never concern myself with any of that--I'll leave that to the 49%ers to worry about...

Let's take this slow, Clifford.
I have watched countless hours of football for decades which has given me an education on the subject. I can speak or write about it with some degree of personal conviction. All of us here posting on these boards have this going for us --to a certain degree. On the other hand, the behind-closed doors job of a NFL GM I have very little, comparatively speaking, to go on. I COULD go on and on, but I'm not deluded enough to believe that I am doing anything but talking out of my ass when it comes to the cost/benefit analysis of putting together a roster to create a simultaneously successful AND profitable NFL team.

I'm okay with admitting that.

But you? You got it ALL figured out, eh Champ?

::ahem::
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms:

*Reacting to criticism with anger, or the need to shame or humiliate
*Exaggerating own importance, achievements, and talents
*Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, or intelligence
*Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
*Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
*Being obsessed with oneself
*Pursuing mainly selfish goals
*Trouble keeping healthy relationships
*Wanting "the best" of everything
*Appearing unemotional

by Guest Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:42 pm

JnC4GB wrote:
_HD_ wrote:
LOL! Translation: I spung from my ass about the Packers the same way I do about politics and probably everything else--idealisticly--with no concept, consideration or clue relative to the feasibility, practicality or cost to actually implementing what I blather on about... I'm just a fan, after all, in all of it... I never have to drop the dime--so never concern myself with any of that--I'll leave that to the 49%ers to worry about...

Let's take this slow, Clifford.
I have watched countless hours of football for decades which has given me an education on the subject. I can speak or write about it with some degree of personal conviction. All of us here posting on these boards have this going for us --to a certain degree. On the other hand, the behind-closed doors job of a NFL GM I have very little, comparatively speaking, to go on. I COULD go on and on, but I'm not deluded enough to believe that I am doing anything but talking out of my ass when it comes to the cost/benefit analysis of putting together a roster to create a simultaneously successful AND profitable NFL team.

I'm okay with admitting that.

But you? You got it ALL figured out, eh Champ?

::ahem::
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms:

*Reacting to criticism with anger, or the need to shame or humiliate
*Exaggerating own importance, achievements, and talents
*Imagining unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, or intelligence
*Requiring constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
*Lacking empathy and disregarding the feelings of others
*Being obsessed with oneself
*Pursuing mainly selfish goals
*Trouble keeping healthy relationships
*Wanting "the best" of everything
*Appearing unemotional

LOL You've got the list pretty well down, Flex... You know yourself well. One key thing I'd add through, is your sensitivity to others--particularly males, in asserting themselves... Here is yet another example:

But there's MUCH more going on here than that. Romnney's big swinging dick act last night did him no favors -especially with where he needs the most help: women voters. Stomping on the neck of moderator Jim Lehrer was good alpha-male showmanship. But doing it to a overweight middle-aged woman? Nosomuch.

The repeated *big swinging dick* characterization/sensitivity is also potentially very telling. Laughing

You might not have gotten to that one in session yet--but if I were the one with the ipad--that's right where I'd start... Wink

by JnC4GB Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:56 pm

"I know I'm not, but what are you?" and "you're a fag" is really the best you got? Really??

Fuuuuck, you're in a sad state of affairs, my friend.
Hit the gym.

by Guest Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:01 pm

JnC4GB wrote:"I know I'm not, but what are you?" and "you're a fag" is really the best you got? Really??

Fuuuuck, you're in a sad state of affairs, my friend.
Hit the gym.

LOL! When your projection gets to this degree of transparency...it's time to show compassion for my weary friend... After all--we both know what the truth is here, eh? Wink

by JnC4GB Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:28 pm

_HD_ wrote:
JnC4GB wrote:"I know I'm not, but what are you?" and "you're a fag" is really the best you got? Really??

Fuuuuck, you're in a sad state of affairs, my friend.
Hit the gym.

LOL! When your projection gets to this degree of transparency...it's time to show compassion for my weary friend... After all--we both know what the truth is here, eh?

Nope. Shucks, I guess I don't.

Please proceed, Governor. Basketball

by milani Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:12 pm

You overpay one guy and you have less to spend on the rest of your roster.

Driver does not make didley anymore. For what he is getting you'll probably get another Underwood in the secondary. Ahmad Carroll made more in his rookie year than Driver is getting now.

You have to remember that we are a passing team. We pass to our wide outs. ( Not our backs and only once in a while to our TE ).

We have to have a slew of wide outs for ARod to do his thing. If we were a running team like we were about a decade ago you could get by with a Jevon Walker, Robert Ferguson, Donald Driver, and a Bubba Franks. You could afford more in terms of offensive linemen and TEs that could run block like David Martin and Kevin Barry.

We've never really invested in DBs and safeties except for Woodson in recent years. Nick Collins was about to make bigger money but his career was cut short.

by Guest Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:58 pm

milani wrote:You overpay one guy and you have less to spend on the rest of your roster.

Driver does not make didley anymore. For what he is getting you'll probably get another Underwood in the secondary. Ahmad Carroll made more in his rookie year than Driver is getting now.

You have to remember that we are a passing team. We pass to our wide outs. ( Not our backs and only once in a while to our TE ).

We have to have a slew of wide outs for ARod to do his thing. If we were a running team like we were about a decade ago you could get by with a Jevon Walker, Robert Ferguson, Donald Driver, and a Bubba Franks. You could afford more in terms of offensive linemen and TEs that could run block like David Martin and Kevin Barry.

We've never really invested in DBs and safeties except for Woodson in recent years. Nick Collins was about to make bigger money but his career was cut short.

Staggering. Can I dissect your brain for the benefit of science sometime, Milani? Very Happy

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