No unwritten rules.

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No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:25 am

BB claimed an injured guy off waivers.
Again.
There are no unwritten rules.
Then why is it he's almost* the only guy who ever does this?
Maybe, and I'm just speculating here, because he's a douche?


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BTW, the guy who exposed Gaffney in Carolina, Dave Gettleman, is the same guy who waived Ballard in NY in 2012.
He must have forgotten there was still a GM in the league who doesn't think he needs to behave the same as everybody else.




*The Jags claimed a guy from the Browns in 2009 and people were irate, but story was the Jax GM was new and didn't know any better.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:54 pm

George1963 wrote:
There are no unwritten rules.

Your statement is correct.

If "unwritten rules" were actually rules, then they'd be written, wouldn't they?

Carolina couldn't find a place for the player on IR?  I guess they didn't value him all that much is the only conclusion I can reach. 

Back when the Pats claimed Ballard when the Giants put him on waivers, Tom Coughlin was "disappointed", not mad at Belichick, but "disappointed" in his own GM for exposing Ballard to being claimed off waivers.

Something wrong with thinking long term, and stashing a guy away for a year on IR within the Rules (you know, the written ones)?  Don't think so.

Douche? 

If you say so.
 

But after the Ballard thing a couple of years ago, the NFL didn't take action and make the so-called "unwritten rule" an actual written one. 

Did they?

Maybe this time Goodell will come down hard on BB and charge him with "douchiness" and hand out some appropriate punishment, like taking the player away from NE and giving him back to Carolina.  Ya, maybe that will happen.

Then you can hail that "justice in the name of the unwritten rule" was done.



Last edited by guppy on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:11 pm

George1963 wrote: Dave Gettleman, is the same guy who waived Ballard in NY in 2012.
He must have forgotten there was still a GM in the league who doesn't think he needs to behave the same as everybody else.

Ya, he must have forgotten.  Because when he screwed up by exposing Ballard waaaaaaaay back in 2012, who could remember that far back?  To recall something that long ago would surely be asking too much of him.

And with all the things he's got to keep in his head, who could remember some small, nondescript detail like that, even if it did cause him to catch so much flack in NY?  Can't blame the guy for forgetting such a minor experience.

Either that.  Or, he's just a dumb fuck who is in a job way over his head. 




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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:52 pm

guppy wrote:
George1963 wrote:
There are no unwritten rules.

Your statement is correct.

If "unwritten rules" were actually rules, then they'd be written, wouldn't they?

Carolina couldn't find a place for the player on IR?  I guess they didn't value him all that much is the only conclusion I can reach. 

Back when the Pats claimed Ballard when the Giants put him on waivers, Tom Coughlin was "disappointed", not mad at Belichick, but "disappointed" in his own GM for exposing Ballard to being claimed off waivers.

Something wrong with thinking long term, and stashing a guy away for a year on IR within the Rules (you know, the written ones)?  Don't think so.

Douche? 

If you say so.
 

But after the Ballard thing a couple of years ago, the NFL didn't take action and make the so-called "unwritten rule" an actual written one. 

Did they?

Maybe this time Goodell will come down hard on BB and charge him with "douchiness" and hand out some appropriate punishment, like taking the player away from NE and giving him back to Carolina.  Ya, maybe that will happen.

Then you can hail that "justice in the name of the unwritten rule" was done.


Grab the hose Gup. Your cat's on fire.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:21 pm


George1963
There are no unwritten rules.

Grab the hose Gup. Your cat's on fire.


Can't help you G.  I only speak English.


This English for example (the written kind):



COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT - NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION

ARTICLE 29

WAIVERS

Section 1. Release:

(a)     Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell / Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline, his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period.  If the waivers occur after that time, the player's Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to the claiming Club. 





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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:53 pm

guppy wrote:

George1963
There are no unwritten rules.

Grab the hose Gup. Your cat's on fire.


Can't help you G.  I only speak English.


This English for example (the written kind):



COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT - NFL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION

ARTICLE 29

WAIVERS

Section 1. Release:

(a)     Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell / Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline, his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period.  If the waivers occur after that time, the player's Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to the claiming Club. 





Wow. You got me there. Except for the fact that this has nothing to do with this situation, that is. (Read the first sentance after a))
It's wrong and you know it. People, normal people, follow unwritten rules every day. It's how the world works. Excusing some sociopathic douche who doesn't just because he coaches a team you root for is a little sad.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:48 am

George1963 wrote:

People, normal people, follow unwritten rules every day. It's how the world works. Excusing some sociopathic douche who doesn't just because he coaches a team you root for is a little sad.


"Sociopathic douche"?   Wow.  Big words.  Intensely descriptive.

Despite you telling yourself in the mirror every morning that you're always right, not all agree with you however.




Anyone who is upset with what Belichick did just doesn’t understand how the NFL works. The Panthers have 90 offseason roster spots right now, so if they really wanted Tyler Gaffney they would have just kept him on the roster and they wouldn’t have exposed him to waivers. Obviously they didn’t feel strongly about the player because they left him out there.
Bill Belichick to his credit, Tyler Gaffney was somebody they scouted up and he snagged him. Now the Patriots have to carry him on the roster, so they’ll only have 89 healthy[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] players in camp. Anybody complaining about Belichick violating a rule is kind of being a baby and not understanding how reality works.



"This is business,” Panthers’ general manager Dave Gettleman told BBR Monday night. “We’re in a competitive business. We’re all looking to improve. They made a business decision.”




SPARTANBURG -- I don't ultimately think it will be a huge deal, but the Panthers got snookered by New England in the Tyler Gaffney situation.

Waiving Gaffney after he tore up his knee at Fan Fest Friday was a calculated risk and one the Panthers did not have to take at this point. But NFL teams so rarely claim players off waivers the Panther thought it was worth it and that they would simply get Gaffney onto their own injured reserve list. New England then stepped in and claimed Gaffney, leaving the Panthers no longer holding rights to their sixth-round draft pick of 2014 and also out the $96,000 signing bonus they gave him.

Panther coach Ron Rivera called New England's claim "disappointing" and "surprising" but said that it wasn't against any unwritten rule.


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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:53 am

George1963 wrote: People, normal people, follow unwritten rules every day. It's how the world works.


Sure, as a general statement.  And its how the NFL works too.  But the unwritten rules are for play on the field, for example, you don't bull rush a team that is taking a knee at the end of a game.  The unwritten rules don't extend to this case of the front office making business decisions, not play on the field.  Otherwise, why not just scrap the whole waiver system all together?  Its there for a purpose.  And I'm sure you do realize that now the Pats can only keep 89 healthy players in camp, not 90 like the Panthers, so there is a cost, claiming the player is not free. 

I agree with the general notion that the world works on unwritten rules every day.  This particular situation that you're complaining about just happens to not be one of them.

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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:27 am

guppy wrote:
George1963 wrote: People, normal people, follow unwritten rules every day. It's how the world works.


Sure, as a general statement.  And its how the NFL works too.  But the unwritten rules are for play on the field, for example, you don't bull rush a team that is taking a knee at the end of a game.  The unwritten rules don't extend to this case of the front office making business decisions, not play on the field.  Otherwise, why not just scrap the whole waiver system all together?  Its there for a purpose.  And I'm sure you do realize that now the Pats can only keep 89 healthy players in camp, not 90 like the Panthers, so there is a cost, claiming the player is not free. 

I agree with the general notion that the world works on unwritten rules every day.  This particular situation that you're complaining about just happens to not be one of them.



This has happened four times. Once because the guy didn't know. Three times in the last four years by one guy. One who probably leaves the toilet seat up, sits on the bus while pregnant ladies stand and hits on women wearing engagement rings.
Did you ever hear the reason BB started hating Mangini? It wasn't that he left, or even so much that he left for the Jets. It was because he tried to poach players and coaches on his way out which violates an, say it with me, unwritten rule.
I'll correct myself.
He's a hypocritical, sociopathic douche.
Not a very smart one either. As you point out, he's using up a camp roster spot and how ever much cap space this takes up plus the time and expense of his rehab and medical treatment for a guy who likely will never contribute a thing to the Patriots.
Playing chess while everybody else is playing checkers indeed.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:38 am

"This is business,” Panthers’ general manager Dave Gettleman told BBR Monday night. “We’re in a competitive business. We’re all looking to improve. They made a business decision.”

Panther coach Ron Rivera called New England's claim "disappointing" and "surprising" but said that it wasn't against any unwritten rule.






Dave Gettleman and Ron Rivera.
Not douches.


C'mon, if they'd come out and said it was a dick move but considering the dick who made it not surprising, which is probably what they think, you'd be calling them crybabies.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:47 am

George1963 wrote:
Not a very smart one either. As you point out, he's using up a camp roster spot and how ever much cap space this takes up plus the time and expense of his rehab and medical treatment for a guy who likely will never contribute a thing to the Patriots.


Remains to be seen.  From the beginning they liked the player in the draft, so its a calculated - not thoughtless -- investment in the future. 

But then again, with your wisdom, I'm sure every stock you ever bought in your life went up, not down; and you bought low and sold high every single time.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:04 am

George1963 wrote:"This is business,” Panthers’ general manager Dave Gettleman told BBR Monday night. “We’re in a competitive business. We’re all looking to improve. They made a business decision.”

Panther coach Ron Rivera called New England's claim "disappointing" and "surprising" but said that it wasn't against any unwritten rule.






Dave Gettleman and Ron Rivera.
Not douches.


C'mon, if they'd come out and said it was a dick move but considering the dick who made it not surprising, which is probably what they think, you'd be calling them crybabies.


Doesn't matter what I might or might not be calling them because, in fact, they didn't say it.  Actually, they said the opposite.  If they did say what you suggest (even using less emotional or inflammatory words) at least they would have been actually expressing an honest opinion, which we could then take a stance on.  As it is, I guess we have to be mind readers.  And of course when it comes to mind reading, we all know who knows best, right?

Since Gettleman already has been through a high profile personal experience with this exact same situation, he was not blindsided by any means.  Nobody tricked him -- especially HIM.   Now I will tell it like it is.  He simply did not value the player enough to protect him as one of 90, all the while knowing full well what can happen by leaving him unprotected since he's already been through the exact same thing in the past.  He's a big boy, doing his job in a highly competitive business world.  It was not a gamble by him.  Not at all.  It was a well informed choice, he affirmatively made as a business decision, with his eyes wide open. 

It not, then he doesn't belong in that job.

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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:09 am

guppy wrote:
George1963 wrote:
Not a very smart one either. As you point out, he's using up a camp roster spot and how ever much cap space this takes up plus the time and expense of his rehab and medical treatment for a guy who likely will never contribute a thing to the Patriots.


Remains to be seen.  From the beginning they liked the player in the draft, so its a calculated - not thoughtless -- investment in the future. 

But then again, with your wisdom, I'm sure every stock you ever bought in your life went up, not down; and you bought low and sold high every single time.

Stocks are for the rubes. Real estate.
You'll never lose money on farm land and rental properties.
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by George1963 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:42 am

I hope you know I don't really care about this all that much. It doesn't tell me anything about BB that I didn't already know, and it has little to no effect on a team I'm only marginally interested in.
I'll say these last two things though;
Rivera and Gettelman are saying what they're supposed to say, but they must have Jerry Richardson tied to a radiator.

I've seen enough of him that I don't need to be a mind reader to know what he thinks about losing 96 grand and a draft pick because one guy thinks the rules of polite society don't apply to him.
And,
 if BB thinks there are no unwritten rules I'd say he's right. For him now anyway. I'm sure there's a thousand different things that go on among NFL teams that aren't written down anywhere that you and I will never know about.

I'd be willing to bet  some those won't be happening for the Pats from now on.
I see them doing their walk thru at some crap HS field 30 miles from town, single-ply, two rolls, in a visiting locker room, or Bob Kraft and his lovely granddaughter sitting in the bleeds between two 500 lb fish market workers.
See it clearly.
 Shocked
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Re: No unwritten rules.

Post by guppy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:43 pm

George1963 wrote:I hope you know I don't really care about this all that much. It doesn't tell me anything about BB that I didn't already know, and it has little to no effect on a team I'm only marginally interested in.
I'll say these last two things though;
Rivera and Gettelman are saying what they're supposed to say, but they must have Jerry Richardson tied to a radiator.

I've seen enough of him that I don't need to be a mind reader to know what he thinks about losing 96 grand and a draft pick because one guy thinks the rules of polite society don't apply to him.
And,
 if BB thinks there are no unwritten rules I'd say he's right. For him now anyway. I'm sure there's a thousand different things that go on among NFL teams that aren't written down anywhere that you and I will never know about.

I'd be willing to bet  some those won't be happening for the Pats from now on.
I see them doing their walk thru at some crap HS field 30 miles from town, single-ply, two rolls, in a visiting locker room, or Bob Kraft and his lovely granddaughter sitting in the bleeds between two 500 lb fish market workers.
See it clearly.
 Shocked

I realize you don't care all that much.  I don't either.  And I'm not saying there are not reasons that BB should be regarded as a dick.  I'm just saying that claiming sixth round draft pick Tyler Gaffney off the waiver wire is not one of them.  (Who knows better than NE that sometimes a 6th round pick can turn into something?)

"Polite society"?  Hmmm.  Interesting concept to bring up here.  I'd say "polite society" is one world.  But I'd venture to say that the ultra competitive, highly sophisticated, rough and tumble business world of the NFL, where job security is directly related to success, is an entirely different one.  What might be unwritten and understood in one world, is not in the other.

One rule that's not written down anywhere, but I would hope is followed by all NFL players is:  "Never grab, squeeze or twist the package in the scrum pile."  Now, that would be more than unsportsmanlike, it would be downright uncivilized.

Anyway, thanks for the lively discussion as always.  At least its never boring.




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